Fun fact, 99.9% of people on the internet who claim to be something in lieu of an actual legitimate argument are lying. Someone talking about carpal tunnel who is actually a surgeon wouldn’t say ‘as a surgeon I know what I’m talking about’, they’d just explain it in layman’s terms to the best of their ability and provide a link to supporting documentation or studies, and the fact that they know what they’re talking about would be readily apparent to anyone and everyone. The only person who needs to fall back on credentials instead of an argument is a person who doesn’t have an argument to present instead and does not in fact know what they’re talking about.
Oh and that 99.9%, where did I get it? It’s statistics, and as a statistician I know what I’m talking about.
I have no idea where you pulled that number out of PoE having 3 million players. Steam shows their peaks at about 200k and if we take the word of GGG devs then steam is 50%-60% of their playerbase. So at most they have 500k.
Either way, the numbers aren’t really relevant. GD sold a fraction of what D4 did and I vastly prefer the former.
The problem is people that want to use trade as a tool but then have to endure all the toxic trade practices that come with a free trade, as can be seen in PoE and even in D2. I’m not even talking about RMT, since that is a given and happens in every single game that has trade. I’m talking about price fixing, sniping and especially scamming.
I’m sorry that you want to play the market and aren’t allowed to. But EHG wants you to play the game instead. Which is fine by me. PoE’s trade was one of the main reasons I left and D2’s trade was one of the main reasons I started playing mostly alone. I just want a glorified vendor shop, not a stock market.
It’s a failure to you. Every system will have people that love it and people that think it’s horrible.
There are lots of people that think that GW2 AH is terrible and ruined the game and prefer GW1’s system better.
This applies not only to trade but every single decision. Yes, I tend to defend most things in LE (although I did point out several times in this thread that the UI is terrible) because I like them. I like the way the game is now. Which is why I’m still around.
You’re just someone who thinks most things are terrible in LE. It’s apparent you don’t like the game. So why are you still here when all their systems are terrible?
Sorry, maybe you don’t understand that way. I’ll rephrase:
YOU’RE just someone who thing MOST things are TERRIBLE in LE. It’s APPARENT you DON’t like the game. So WHY are you still here when ALL their systems are TERRIBLE?
Maybe doing random caps like you do all the time will help.
I’m glad that EHG recognizes that trade is a valuable feature but Trade Lord is not a valid way to play a game about killing monsters. Every middle finger that LE gives to players who want to spend their gaming time trying to fuck over other players in the name of amassing fake digital wealth is a middle finger I will echo.
Like everything Tencent gets its hands on, the numbers are hidden but aggregators like this give us an average, as shown there, it has 10~15 million players and 3 million are an estimate of loyal players.
What’s the problem with people who want to sell finding people who want to buy? This was NEVER a problem in games until forum whiners appeared who thought everything had to be a soulslike and kill the player, because if you’re playing and having fun without dying every 10 seconds you’re playing wrong. If you don’t want to change, don’t change, IT’S THAT SIMPLE.
There are people who defend terrorists like Hamas. that’s not an argument GW2 is a gigantic game INFINITELY longer lasting and with an INFINITELY greater number of still active players than GW1, there are no comparisons. And supply and demand is something BASIC that even ends the stakeholder speculators’ argument, a house with BOTH supply and demand possibilities completely breaks the Chinese pixel miners. Any market distortion only exists when artificial barriers are created, otherwise the market ALWAYS regresses to the average, this is a determined fact.
on the contrary. I liked the game that’s why I’m here talking about the negative points that the game has, giving my opinion in the hope of helping the devs to understand problems that they don’t notice because they are in a bubble, you, on the contrary, keep that bubble closed by diverting the subject, accusing others games (always like this) but never actually arguing what is being proposed. Factions in ARPGs are a failure, D4 showed this, now LE is going through the same thing, because it’s just not fun to grind it every 3 months for nothing. Trading has to be as free as possible with supply and demand, creating obstacles to this distorts the market and doesn’t change anything since 90% of global chat activity is from gold sellers and the game doesn’t even have a reporting system for this. but it punishes the player in a fair exchange system.
ALL GAMES HAVE PROBLEMS (yes, in caps to highlight) when we point them out it’s because we want the best for the game, this argument that we are “hateful” or “don’t like it, stop playing” hasn’t worked very well for any game, the powerful wow has become a living dead so, look at NewWorld and tell me if shielding it from criticism helped? Let’s talk about Wolcen? or even from D4?
LE has fantastic classes, a wonderful beginning and middle game, but it fails in terms of end game scaling, I’m here trying to help, hoping that this end game is as good, good and fun as the acts and the climbing of the monoliths were for me, that will give longevity to the game, however if we pretend that this doesn’t happen we will see another flopped season and when they realize it the game will be dead before the 4th season.
Yes, because that site is soooooo reliable.
If you look at Last Epoch stats, it says 1.3M active players (it’s not anywhere near that) and peak viewers in the last 30 days as 3k (it’s 20k). If it can’t get the numbers right on game that is 100% trackable on steam charts, why would it get anything near right on a game that is split?
According to steamcharts, PoE had a peak of a little over 200k in the last year. According to GGG devs, steam is 50-60% of players (probably more these days). So PoE doesn’t have more than 500k, tops.
Yeah, the tencent tin-foil hattery. Tencent has zero to do with Blizzard and Blizzard never showed numbers unless it was convenient.
And tencent is a partner with EHG and yet all numbers are available. But yeah, I’m sure it’s all because of lizard people tencent.
I don’t know why you had to go pull the “soulslike” argument when it has nothing to do with trade (let’s ignore the fact that nothing in LE is soulslike, it’s just a term people are using these days for “I have to look at the game when I’m playing instead of watching a video on another monitor”).
Wow, you’re all over the place lately. Comparing players/devs to terrorrists and communist tyrants. That really helps your case.
And yet the same toxic practices exist in GW2 that exist in PoE. Namely, price fixing, sniping, etc. Much like it let’s you pretty much stop playing the game entirely and spend the whole time just buying and selling.
There are plenty of players that don’t like this environment (which was my point above, but to which you replied about soulslike stuff).
Do you?
Funnily enough, previously you had said:
Even though you now complain that the game is soulslike. Even though it’s easy. But yeah, it’s soulslike.
And so on and so on. You hate trade, you hate bosses, you hate RNG drops, you even say this is the worst ARPG you played in many threads. In fact, I have to scroll a lot to find a post from you saying that something in LE is good.
RMT will always exist. It exists in GW2 as well. It’s unavoidable.
As for the other part, no, it doesn’t have to be free. When you have a free market in games you get price fixers, snipers and scammers.
When instead you turn trade into a glorified vendor shop, then players can still use trade as a tool to get gear without having to deal with all that.
You want to play the market. We get it. It sucks that you can’t, but there are plenty of games for that.
We don’t want to deal with toxic trade practices. EHG gave that to us. I hope it never changes. If it ever does become a free market like PoE or GW2 or every single other ARPG out there, I’ll probably stop playing. Or at least play a lot less.
Trade doesn’t need to change. It’s just targetted at other types of players that aren’t like you.
Next time you’re in the store to “negotiate” a product, ask them about their do-it-yourself materials.
Plenty of folks enjoy building things with their own hands.
Personally, I enjoy the occassional woodwork or electrical stuff, but have enough self-knowledge to not start on anything plumbing-related.
Also,
A) Writing Hello World is not being a developer. It also doesn’t matter, because around these parts, you’re a customer/player, just like the guys doing art or filling your gas. You are not superior just because you say so.
B) No, you don’t know what you’re talking about, because your suggestion of “remove 0 cost items after 30 days” solves nothing.
C) the game also succeeds on several points, one of them being the Bazaar being designed as more optional content vs the extremes like PoE or D4.
D) “Shut up if you don’t agree with me” maybe be your opinion, but it sure sounds like a stupid-ass opinion to me, so I’ve elected to ignore it.
E) Actually have some vacation time coming up, thank you for your concern!
Can we just call Hamas the new Godwin nazis already?
If it comes down to this comparison, we already know who ran out of arguments and it just trying flinging poo hoping it sticks.
Because it’s a nice convenient strawman that has nothing to do with what other people are saying but can be relatively easily construed as a Bad Thing ™.
Yeah, that was fairly obvious from them giving a total PoE figure of several orders of magnitude greater than Steam.
Yelling that TenCent gave money to a company and they are now therefore corrupt, morally bankrupt, and scheming mustache twisters is seriously becoming the internet gaming community’s most tedious attempt to portray tinfoil hatted, hyperbolic cynicism as intelligence.
I have no doubt that tencent is in it for the money. They’re sponsors/investors, not game creators. But I highly doubt they have any say in PoE or LE’s game design choices. They just invest in what seems likely to be profitable.
I’m CoF only. Solo player. I guess I’m part of the ‘no world’ population. And, no, if CoF didn’t exist I would still not trade, I’d just play solo self-found anyway.
So, again, what we need is a better filter/UI, which is coming. Not for items to be removed.
If you look at PoE’s trade page, they always have thousands, if not millions, of items being sold there. From utter garbage sold for a token value to BiS gear sold for dozens of divines. And also utter garbage sold for high values.
If you search on standard, you’ll see items that have been for sale for years. And yet, you can still find what you want easily because they have a good filter (which they copied from poe.trade, but that’s another issue).
There is no problem with things being sold for a long time, as long as you can filter them out if you want. And eventually someone buys it, even after a year or two.
Well yes, technically, all arguments come from your head, that’s how abstract thinking works.
As someone in a billion dollar industry who’s primary job has been system analysis and diagnoses (literally studying systems for failures & weak points) for over a decade now; Your suggestion provides a bad solution to a specific problem you perceive.
First of all, your implementation requires players to know the market sell-point well enough to not overprice it, rather than just fill in the price they think it’s worth. That means external tools to track it all, something EHG is against.
Secondly, your implementation will inevitably punish people when the supply exceeds the demand. Unless LE comes with a free working crystal ball, that means sometimes, an item won’t sell even if it’s priced correctly and you lose it and the gold just because of your system.
Thirdly, because there is no removal feature on Bazaar, a player would lock in an item and have an unknown chance on getting a reward. Depending on how local laws are written, that may constitute gambling and cause LE, or at least MG, to be banned from certain regions.
Fourthly, MG players need a way to spend surplus favour somehow, so they’re gonna keep putting up items for 0 gold anyway. Your system does nothing to prevent this behaviour in particular.
Fifthly, if you were to implement a message at 25 days, most people would still repost their items after that warning feature, solving absolutely nothing except making it more cumbersome to engage in the Bazaar and drive players away from MG.
Sixthly, the simple thing here is you not realizing that a filter would not only solve your personal grievance, but would do so without far larger impact on the economy, unlike your “delete items kek” idea.
Seventhly, if you start deleting items from Bazaar it stops being a player-driven market and you might as well just redo it into a vendor system instead.
Eightly, I can’t believe spellcheck stopped seeing these as words halfway through.
Overall, your posts seem rude, arrogant, extremely Dunning-Kruger, and bank more on “ReSpEcT mY aUtHoRiTeH” than engaging with other people as equals. If you need to fall back on your rank or job to prove you’re the authority on something, you have already failed. At no point in this entire thread have you brought up an argument as to why a player-controlled filter would not solve all the issues you attempt to solve.
I mentioned 30 topics of problems that the bazaar has and you only focused on this issue of removing items that are more than 30 days old. What is your problem?? As I mentioned before, in this question, the problem is having several items that pollute the search filter, now if you don’t realize this, you probably don’t even use trade correctly, because this is a notable problem, not only for me but also for others players. Whether the solution will be to remove the items or return them to the inventory is another story, but something must be done about it.
Probably because, like I said before, almost all of the problems listed are related to the UI and not to trade itself. So you don’t need to make changes to trade (other than some tweaks on a few things), just to the UI. Which will happen soon.
As I mentioned, in PoE you have items being sold for years now and there’s no problem there finding what you want. So we just need better filters/UI.
But sure, I’m bored atm so I’ll humour you just this once …
The fact there are tons of items on there for 0 gold means there is an abundance of supply. If you implemented a minimum of vendor price, those items would all be exactly that. This is a basic example of supply & demand at work.
If you mean factions instead of classes, no. Plenty of people play games without trade, D3 was still played once RMAH was shut down, D4 doesn’t allow non-group trading,… The CoF is a perfect bonus for people who enjoy SSF (or SCF/SAF in LE’s case) but I’m certain a large majority of those players will still NOT interact with the Bazaar if they had no faction system.
It’s selfish to say that people should not have alternatives to Trade systems. Also ironic as this would actually increase the supply side more than demand, and you’ld end up with even more 0 gold sales.
It is not. You find them irrelevant, but you are not the only person playing in this game.
UI works are underway. I would’ve agreed with this point if not for the superlatives.
Preferably, you can choose, but again, improvements are under way.
Again, assume you mean ‘roll’ here. Idols are only ever T1 by design, if I was too look for particularly good roles, I’ld probably want them to be descending in price. There is a good design reason why they don’t want Idol rolls split into several tiers, which Mike has explained repeatedly in the stream. (Every Friday at 21:00 GMT, plus North-American DST)
Did I mention that they’re already working on UI & filter improvements for the Bazaar?
Originally a system limitation issue. Should this get resolved completely, this point still won’t be high on their to-do list, iirc.
Tried the bug forums yet?
Per last week’s stream: More than half the playerbase isn’t even there yet.
I’ve also played several builds with set items beyond 200 corruption, so not entirely true.
Oh, and this has nothing to do with the Merchant’s Guild faction at all, so irrelevant point in the discussion. (but they are well aware of set item power)
I know, I know, how about I call it “interface optimalisation” this time?
Per design, they don’t want trade-scalpers & flippers. The Bazaar is meant for you to buy items you need to play the game, the Bazaar is not the game.
So your suggestion was to delete those possibly rare items because someone overpriced them, instead of … yet again … UI improvements?
You can, you just can’t post them all at once! After all, the Bazaar is for those rare and precious drops, not for dumping a bag full of uniques for 0 gold all at once, right?
Don’t see any issues with servers myself, nor do the vast majority of players, so more likely it’s somewhere between you and the connection from their server to your ISP.
So to answer your initial question:
Several changes in the UI are in the works. Considering the timeline between scrapping the old concept and 1.0, the current UI does an adequate job, but is still open for imrpovements.
Implementing arbitrary rules for prices or sale duration are currently not mentioned in any dev communication. (afaik)
Trying to force players to use the market a certain way inevitably leads to outside platforms, where you have no control over fair playing fields. Also bridges closer towards RMT, like D2 had. This is a Very Bad Thing for the future of the game.
