I can devise a build that destroys everything. But when it comes to bosses there is no rhyme or reason… just one shot. Doesn’t matter if I build super tanke all armor/resistance… makes no difference. ONE SHOT all day, either u have traversal x2 or u die. Needs to be re thought.
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I think more concrete examples of which bosses you think are unfair would be helpful, maybe even with details about what abilities you think are unfair.
Yes there are a lot of boss skills that will kill you, nomatter how tanky you are and that is intended this way.
But there are at least that many, if not more abilities that you can outgear and then ignore once you are tanky enough.
I personally think its always good to have mechanics that you cannot trivialize, even with ultra good gear.
This keeps bosses relevant and you can’t just cheese them.
Also I have to disagree with you that you need traversal abilities. While they do help alot and if used properly make it a lot easier and most important make you reposition yourself faster so you can start doing dps again.
But you can do all bosses without traversal skills, if you at least have decent boots with some movement speed on it. Your room for reaction is defintiely more important if you don’t use traversal skills, but its possible.
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But when it comes to bosses there is no rhyme or reason… just one shot.
Other than you standing in large, glowing visual effects that couldn’t be more obvious if they were literally the words “MOVE DUMMY” flashing on your screen, yes, there is no rhyme or reason at all to getting one shot by bosses.
Skill issue, move along everyone.
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I completley agree with OP and I’ll respectfully suggest that you’re missing the point. If this was a “souls” game from level 1, then fine - “get good”. That’d be clear in the first hour and ok - personally, I’d just get a refund.
But when levels 1-70 are the typical ARPG cakewalk, and then suddenly “souls” content pops up out of nowhere and one shots you, it’s a complete surprise and a completely unwelcome shock.
It’s like the game is luring you into a false sense of security: “you’re crushing everything! you have an amazing build! Wow - how casual-friendly this game is!” and then turns on you. “Your build is trash without the ‘right’ traversal skills, 10x the armor, health, crit avoidance, ward, etc - even though your build was more than sufficient for the other 99% of the game.” There’s no reason for such a forced jarring change in playstyles. Forcing us to close the game and google, “how do I avoid one shot of <boss>?” and watch some random YouTuber, just so I can get back to the fun, is frustrating. And it’s not just 1 specific lvl 100 true-end-game boss. Every boss after the campaign is like this.
I recongize that folks can disagree with me on all of the above, but that’s my feelings on the subject as a filthy casual who just wants to have some mostly-mindless ARPG fun.
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What about Lagon and Majasa? Some complain that those are too hard in campaign, so they must be a good introduction to fucky bosses. Then you have regular monoliths which are easier versions of empowered, where you can practice bosses. For dungeons you have whole 3 difficulties before the final one.
You can’t just make the campaign too hard, cause casual players need something to enjoy, and there are players who just finish campaign and are done with the season.
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This game has problems with the way the defensive layers work, and the 2nd worst bose design of all the ARPGs I’ve played (only beating D3). As said above, it is very reminiscent of the terrible SOULS that confuse GOOD MECHANICS with difficulty. You don’t fight against a BOSS but with little marks on the ground, the movement of the bosses here is also “strange” they seem to slide sometimes the screen is extremely polluted. A LOT of useless mechanics with stupid damage and in the end we have 2 builds that IGNORE the game either by staking wards and never being killed by anything the boss does or by blowing them up in seconds.
As I said, it seems like people here don’t want an ARPG, these are games with a focus on clear, simple and addictive gameplay, made to be repeated thousands of times without tiring us, focusing on long exhausting fights and mechanics will only create two things, builds that They ignore them, or players get tired and leave, and here we are, the game doesn’t have 5k active plays and less than 100 views on Twitch…
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So in your opinion, PoE boss design is better than LE boss design?
Even though LE boss design is very clearly a copy/paste of PoE’s?
And PoE’s boss design is simply an extension of D2’s Diablo and uber bosses boss design (you couldn’t face tank the lightning hose or the firestorm)?
Personally, I think the boss design is pretty fair. You get telegraph warnings with plenty of time to avoid them. They’re only an issue if you just want to sit in the same spot face tanking everything.
Honestly, it makes them a nice break from monotony where you actually have to look at the screen rather than play while watching a youtube video in another monitor.
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What you wrote is abject nonsense, full stop.
This game is not difficult. Everything that can one shot you is heavily telegraphed. There is no part of Last Epoch that comes anywhere close to being “Souls”, and the fact that you’re repeatedly using “SoULs cOnTeNt” as a synonym for “You have to pay attention and can’t face tank everything” is as ridiculous as it is pedestrian as it is obnoxious.
Nobody forces you to do that except you, and you do it by being bad. The only answer to that question is “Open your eyes and move out of the gigantic glowing visual effect that’s telling you to move”. You don’t need a bunch of traversal skills, you don’t need a billion armor and health and resists and wards, you literally just need to pay attention and actually move. We’re not talking about scaling Corruption to the moon so everything is a murder box all the time, we’re talking about boss abilities with seven year telegraphs and the visibility of a supernova.
Bad players complaining that they can’t play the game with the same level of attention that they’d play a mobile Tower Defense game is the most tired and tedious box on my Forum Bingo sheet.
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Let’s not mince words - This is exactly what everybody complaining about it wants.
good apart from uber mavem, uber sirus and uber searing exarch. Yes, the bosses of Pe are MUCH better, because their fights are clean and clear, you fight AGAINST the boss, even in the resets (which are rubbish) you know what and when to fight, in addition to the 3 that I listed, none of them give you an idiotic HK, and STILL if you make a mistake you will have 6 more chances to finish, even the farming for them was good, straight to the point and without a lot of unnecessary grinding besides that everything can be bought like in a good ARPG and the fights improve when done with group (2-3 people). UNFORTUNATELY PoE-tencent is also being pushed into this soulslike shit of thinking that things have to be purely mechanical and killing the player for anything and never stealing anything and even worse hiding the fight invitation behind a forced farm (like now in t17 )
such that? as the two builds that dominate the game
[Last Epoch] Huge 4LP upgrades & 2k corruption with Plasma Orb Runemaster - Stream Highlights #25 (youtube.com)
Every single boss in PoE has one-shot mechanics from the start, starting with Kitava, compounded with Sirus, Elder, Shaper, etc. Every single boss they designed was around mechanics that have to be avoided and, even worse, multiple phases with immune periods.
This is a fair argument and one that’s been brought up previously, especially for dungeons. I hope it gets changed as well.
For monos, though, they now removed the stability penalty, so you can try the bosses however many times you want.
Farming bosses was always a pain in PoE. Many of them even worse than LE. Especially Shaper/Elder/Atziri and recently all the Maven related ones.
The only thing that made them bearable was that you could buy the relevant items, but that just means that you’re an experienced player. New players will never fight one of the bosses because the grind required for it is too much and that’s even if they are aware of how to do it.
You mean the drops? You can do that in LE as well. I don’t understand your point.
I really don’t understand your point when PoE has always had mechanical bosses from the start. You’ve always had to avoid the Sirus maze or you would be one shot. You always had to avoid the Shaper beam or you would be one shot. You always had to avoid the Elder nova.
With the recent power creep, you might be able to tank some of those these days, but the fight was always mechanical and based around stuff that you couldn’t avoid. It isn’t any different from LE’s.
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And Maven memory game, and Exarch’s balls and explosion, and Eater’s murder beam, and half a dozen Conqueror abilities, and…
You know what I bet the problem is? You have to go out of your way in POE to fight bosses that you can’t just yolo your way through. LE’s big bosses that don’t let you get away with being totally brain dead are way more accessible, and that makes some people feel like they’re entitled to beating them no matter how little they’re willing to try, because they didn’t have to try at all to get to them in the first place.
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So you mean the bosses they added 3, 4 and 6 years after the game’s release respectively? (Shaper, Elder, Sirus)
I can’t wait for the stuff EHG will add 3-6 years after release!
Before that PoE had no good bosses for the most part. And some of the ones you mentioned, specifically Sirus had huge problems which needed several patches to be fixed (like bricking the fight entirely with the Deatomizing Storms)
Most of PoE’s Map Bosses, which are part of the game for a significantly longer amount of time than these Pinnacle bosses, have opaque mechanics that nobody knows what they are doing. And when you die you don’t even know why or how.
Don’t get me wrong, I love some of the Pinnacle Bosses of PoE. Especially Sirus is insanely great from a voice cue perspective, but he is jumping out of your screen and blasts you with a triple laser if you don’t instantly get close to him again. That is not “clean and clear” at all.
In PoE the way to deal with this is most of the time to gear a specific way to ignore as many of these mechanics as possible. Which is very similar to LE, but LE still ahs mechanics that you can’t deal with, regardless of how good your build or gear is.
I don’t know what you mean with “you fight AGAINST the boss”, because that is ltierally what you do in LE as well. I think all of LE’s bosses are clean and clear, more than PoE’s bosses for the most part.
That is a valid point of critism, but also more a design decision and I don’t think one thing is better than the other, it just is different.
I disagree strongly with this. Being able to buy and sell the entry to a boss puts a economic value on it, which disincentivices doing the boss yourself and not even trying.
Even if you could defeat the boss, you might not want to and just sell it, thus not playing parts of the game.
Certain types of content should not be “skippable” like this.
I like when you can choose what kind of content you want to see more often and what you want to avoid, but things like boss fights should be something everybody has to deal with.
It also fosters a efficiency enviroment where attempting a boss and failing is inefficienct and then you don’t even try it, because you are better off selling it.
On the flip side this enables playstyles that exploit the economy in a certain way, where for example a certain boss drops more value on average than the entry free and then you can make profit by only doing this one boss over and over again.
While this works in PoE I don’t want LE to become this. LE is all about going out there and do stuff yourself, any stuff.
As a new player, I wanted to ask what the learning curve is for bosses like Rahyeh who are currently wiping the floor with me?
I’m frustrated that the game only has one difficulty and it’s either master the mechanical parts or just be stuck on the boss. I haven’t played POE and in D4, I skip uber-Lilith because frankly I know my limitations and I’m a barely-skilled button masher.
all the bosses were pretty easy before they put in collision detection. theeeeeeen, big fat dragon bombs got harder to dodge, lol. maybe if they had some illusionary boots that gave you pass-through, it would make boss fighting on tanks less bothersome. not all builds can get a bunch of traversal powers.
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There’s really nothing to the fight dude. You just move out of the purple stuff.
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A kindly suggestion: ignore Bronco unless you’re the sort that is “my way only BRO you just dumb, need to get gud”, etc.
I think I get your question. Like you, I ignore Lilith in D4. I have done some level 100 nightmares RARELY. This game made me rethink and relook at things.
Some of the boss fights in this game are sweatier than I enjoy but I stuck with it and tried to learn the tougher boss mechanics because hey, I don’t want to cry out for them to nerf everything. I’ll give it a go and put in some time researching, etc. I know a lot of people like things to be sweatier than I do so I decided to try and meet the curve halfway.
-A lot of the bosses because way easier once you learn their gimmicks and/or do some research. This can also be build dependent though which irritates me a bit. Build A can take down nasty_boss like it’s nothing but strong build B CAN’T even.
In this case, do the simple stuff and to challenge yourself, try a boss that’s tough for you like… once a day. Research first then try once or twice. Don’t beat yourself up about it, etc. Come back and try another day. Eventually boss by boss, things will open for you more.
I admit though, some still send me into a tantrum-fit here and there.
The bosses are a design choice: static fights (on the boss’ side), with mechanics that you MUST avoid, usually repeated on a fixed pattern and from a fixed position. Learning the choregraphy is a lot more important than the build
Not my favourite kind of bosses, but one that has been very wide spread, in most arpgs and almost all MMOs (not really soul-likes. If you find bosses hard in LE, you will never see a boss in a soul-like game. You will be destroyed long before reaching them.). That’s actually why I almost never raid in MMOs, it often feels more like synchronized dancing that fighting.
Sadly, if you really, really hate this design… Well, not much to do apart from trying another game. While most use the same concept, quite a few more modern ones are trying different, more pro-active ways.
Personally, my favourite boss design in an ARPG would be Undecember. Super fast paced, moving all around the place, deadly but not one-shotty… (Although, make no mistake, they are A LOT harder than LE’s bosses. Really a lot. Because you cannot just learn the patterns.)
Diablo 4 is decent as well, and easier.
I think as a feedback, saying you don’t like this design and wish some bosses would be different is a fair opinion. I would actually second that if it was reasonably worded.
Feels a bit unnecessary to phrase it with as much hyperbole as the OP, and name the thread so offensively.
Oh well, internet communication…
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Was he wrong? If there’s a thing on the floor in a boss fight, it’s a good idea to move out of it & it’s not as if he requires nanosecond reflexes.
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