I think this cost/benefit/risk assessment that this option creates is healthy for exactly this reason.
True but with tier 5’s you already have a really strong item. What is the fun of it if you can get it easy? For me the exalted items are extra’s to hunt for (chase gear), that doesnt mean that because exalted exist the rest of the crafting should be easy, even on higher tiers.
For me crafting should have an exciting feeling vs a challenging feeling. To get the right balance is hard imo.
Well if the numbers (I know they were just examples) were adjusted and the drop rate of some rarer shards weren’t quite as rare, I could see it as a decent way of giving the player more crafting agency.
Oh also you think people are upset at failing their 90% crafts now? Just wait until they fail their 90% crafts after spending all their skill shards.
(Not saying this as a way of discounting the suggestion itself, but man, even I’d be tempted to make a thread complaining about crafting RNG after losing 20 skill shards.)
I agree, in the example numbers provided, I think cutting it down to max 10% and with each additional shard adding 1% would be reasonable.
Though that still feels a bit too strong for common shards (and a tad too expensive for rare ones). The problem is that there’s a great difference in rarity between shards, which make a system like this a little hard to balance.
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It depends on what you mean by “easy.” Clicking a button and letting RNG do its thing can be seen as “easy.” Just grinding a lot can be “easy.” I don’t think this is such a straightforward point as you make it sound.
I think it provides another layer of chase when it comes to loot in the game–and this game sorely needs it–because it’s pretty much just unique/set/exalted right now. If making a piece with a few t4 or t5 affixes is too uncommon, I’ll get bored really fast anyway. To some degree, I already have.
- Crafting feels terrible
- Respec sucks
- Redoing echo progress for each build sucks
- Campaign is too drawn out with no purpose to care about it other than idols (for your alts, at least)
- Loot isn’t exciting (and partially because crafting isn’t) other than uniques
Something’s gotta give. This idea that things would become “too easy” as some reason to not make them feel better to engage with is seriously hobbling this game. It’s better to fix these systems and rebalance enemies to be more challenging than to leave the systems crippled to fit the current challenge level of enemies.
Yeah, like I said, it still carries some of the problems the current system does. At least with that example, though, it points to player decision to burn the extra shards. They don’t have to.
I also consider these to be issues, but
(Oh and I’m probably steering this a bit too much off-topic due to being bored and not able to do my nightly shitposting in LE chat)
This is probably where we differ the most, I think it’s fine, but could definitely see improvements.
Yeah it’s not ideal and I mostly know your take on it, but I think the exp system is fine if the catchup was faster at lower lvls and we had a testing room.
Fucking hell, it sure does. I think as a first/temporary measure, all monoliths prior to empowered should take as long as the 55-65 ones.
Long term they need to be interesting and feel more rewarding, instead of a grind to reach the “monoliths NG+” which invalidate all your blessings with blessings+.
I actually made a suggestion in regards to this, though it would help I don’t consider it enough.
I just want to shill another one of my threads
I’ve made a suggestions for this as well. Besides that, we really need some interesting set effects (but I hear that is being worked on).
Yeah, it’s not really that I mean to shit on the game. There’s plenty I actually really like about it. The problem for me is that these are serious pain points that undermine that enjoyment and make me feel bored/unmotivated to play.
Of the points I listed, I think the biggest offenders are crafting and respec. We need some system other than “lose your points” or it just continues to sit in the bottom 5% of respec systems I’ve ever seen in gaming.
Absolutely, and we really should point out all the things that bother us, that’s half the point of a beta. Holding back criticism only harms the development process.
I agree with the side that craft system is too harsh and it does feel bad to fail so many times. When you finally succeed with a crafting a t20+ is more of FINALLY feeling…
My suggestion would be to implement crafting expertise so every craft whether failing or succeeding gives experience which levels up your crafting expertise so eventually crafting is much less rng. Max craft is still tier 5 so you will still be gear hunting for bis T6/7 but until then least you can have items you want. If t20+ are so game breaking they shouldn’t be possible then…
Also side note why do some bases have such huge stat ranges…ex minion ring and necklace 5-35 how about 20-35
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I found it even easier to make low tier items. Take any white base item. You can add a guaranteed 4 T1 affixes to that item without it fracturing. The first affix you add with a glyph of stability. The other 3 you use a glyph of guardian. That is a guaranteed 4 affixes that you want. Now from there if you continue using glyph of guardian to increase all those T1’s to T2’s, you have a very good chance of that.
After that, you are now in mid tier for T3. Things get more complicated. Do you try and go with stabilities to go up and hope for a crit, or keep pushing with guardians? But T1 and T2 is no problem with guardians.
Agreed… This could be a very interesting compromise to the current system… and if you think about it… you are crafting a particular affix so why not have just that affix fracture rather than the whole item… dare I call it a crack?
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Really like this idea.
Cracks on affixes instead of fractures on items.
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I start with glyph of stability first until around 70%.
After that i go for Glyph of guardian to finish it of.
The problem is that i brick to many items already around 75%.
Iam not saying that crafting 1 or two tier 1’s or tier 2/3’s is hard.
Getting 4 bricks it to many times in my expierence. I think the trick you said with starting early with guardians does work.
It doesnt feel good though to have to use guardians already for t1 and t2 in my opinion.
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i agree.
I disagree. It feels like people underestimate the power of thier 5’s. Iam not fund of only going for exalted items as upgrades and being able to craft every tier 5 stat you want without a risk. Like i said before, until tier 3 and tier 3 itself i hope its gonna be a bit less RNGish.
I noticed that aswell, that makes an item riskier. You can reroll implicits but i find it way harder to find shaper shards 
I think there should be some items having wider ranges however for chasing purpose.
You keep hunting in the hopes of getting a better roll (min/maxing). 5-35 i find to big of a difference however.
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I dont understand this one, how is loot less exciting partially because crafting isnt?
I respect your opinion.
In my opinion this system is far from deterministic because every craft involves RNG.
Because of this if you just that unlucky player you cant post all those pictures that you post. Instead i could post pictures of items being fractured with low tiers, just because iam unlucky. Thats not deterministic at all in my opinion.
A deterministic system is a system in which no randomness is involved in the development of future states of the system (you can look that up on google if you want). Thats why i disagree.
Beside that there is the fun aspect, it doesnt feel fun wasting time gold and items just to fracture another item with way to many low tiers on it.
A few months ago there was a hype of POE streamers saying WOW! LE has deterministic crafting! Its way more deterministic then POE’s crafting system.
This is so wrong in every aspect. POE actually has a system were you are 100% sure you can get multiple crafts. Thats deterministic.
The LE system is RNG. Yes, the player can do certain actions to reduce the chance of the craft getting on the item succesfully. However there is ALWAYS the chance of bricking the item apart of the 100%.
I even had an item that bricked on 99%. I know still 1%. Thats harsh but unlucky.
The thing is that is just RNG. There is nothing determenistic about that right?
I believe there is a huge missconception with a lot of people, about what determenistic actually is.
Dont get me wrong i do like the RNG system of LE for higher tiers. I just feel its to punishing for lower ones. Even given the fact that iam able to make better items, i still think it should be reduced. I dont find that system enjoying.
POE now has even more deterministic crafting because of harvest. Thats just a fact beside people liking it or not.
I dont think its about the coding being wrong. Its about the pity timer in my opinion.
Some people are just more unlucky then others. Yes there is the fact that people remember the times it went wrong better then the ones that succeed.
I still believe its not fun to brick items with 4 tier 3’s on it. Early game the item might be usefull but later on its a bad item.
I hope this sytem becomes more determenistic in regard to those lower tier crafts.
If not i hope the RNG rates will be reduced so i have more succes on not bricking items with 1 tier 2 1 tier 4 and 3’s for example.
The 71-75% and sometimes even way higher percentages hit me in the b*lls way to often.
I do like this sytem for the higher tiers because you shouldnt get those to easy. It also makes drops in the game still important. I just hate the lower tier fails.
I respect EHG’s choice of having a RNG based system. Since determenistic crafting is a system in which no randomness is involved in the development of future states of the system. I really do. I just wish lower tier crafting would be less punishing.
The problem is, it’s never fun to brick an item & there needs to be something to slow down the player getting “good” items, otherwise the loot hunt ends very quickly & the game is, to all intents & purposes, over.
If you have a purely RNG system (like PoE’s kinda is, if you ignore the many methods to slightly improve the odds) then that RNG does the slowing down for you. If you have a largely deterministic system like LE’s, you need something else, either increasing cost, or some form of RNG to “brick” the item.
I don’t like the RNG-bricking, but it’s necessary to stop crafting being an item editor that gives you the best crafted gear on demand (exalted items nothwithstanding).
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I do agree with that. I just hate that a lot of people act like LE is deterministic in purist of what the word actually means…
I do also like the system, just not for the lower tiers
I just broke another item with high percentage chance. I tried rolling poison chance tier 2.
I dont think thats fun at all.
The T5 was on it already and it had low instabillity.
This happends all the time, this is just a trash item, thats why i dont like the percentages in this crafting system on lower tier 1-3 crafts. 
iam so done.
I absolutely love the endgame changes but crafting is becoming a chore.
I just noticed that you had a video.
Yes tier 1 crafts are possible with adding instabillity. Now craft on further and lets see what happends now that you added so much instabillity. There comes the problem.
Please make a video of crafting it further i bet it will get bricked really soon around tier 2/3.
That doesnt sound fun to me.
I saw a video with tips about the odds. They start with the other glyph so you have a chance of getting 2-5 instabillity. With that i got better results IF iam lucky.
Iam repeating myself i think you are getting my point.
It is but that is not possible in LE, not without the chance to fracture it.
I dont get how you find a percentace base system (especially crafting good items) is deterministic to be honest. Its RNG based.
If you are lucky you get it, if not you get the result on my picture. Maybe you are that lucky guy and iam the unlucky guy.