Just what kind of bases are you using? I think vapourfire was pretty spot on with this comment:
And you really don’t need T20 for “soft” minmaxing (whilst “hard” minmaxing would require you to actually get T7 bases which has nothing to do with crafting RNG).
T17-T18 is more than plenty. Of course you’ll usually want your prefixes maxed and a lot of builds highly value suffixes on their weapons. But generally speaking you can keep your armor suffixes at T3-T4 and still meet resistance and crit avoidance caps, with room to spare
Oh that’s my bad then.
I realize that asking what’s needed for the RNG crafting system to become enjoyable and at the same time balanced is a very large question that can’t really be answered just so.
But as to removing the RNG aspect entirely, do you really see it as even being possible, other than simply removing all sorts of crafting, based on the premise of “a crafting system with no RNG at all that is balanced by being neither a waste of time nor the only way of getting gear”?
What if you fractured affixes instead of items?
Currently if you try T4=>T5 below and fracture, the other affixes are unsalvageable. Success rate examples are not to scale.
Fractured:
T3 - not craftable
T4 - not craftable, this fractured the item
T1 - not craftable
blank - not craftable
Fractured affixes
Minor: T4 fractures, rest craftable
Moderate: T4 and T3 fracture, rest craftable
Severe: T4, T3, and T1 fracture, blank slot craftable
Total: same as current
So there would still be RNG, but “failure states” might feel more nuanced. “Minor” would translate to “minor/recoverable” instead of “you can no longer craft on this”. “Severe” would mean a tangible jump instead of “beating a dead horse”.
There are also some interesting directions this could be taken in. For example, imagine if success rates for affixes were independent. Currently T1=>T2 or T0=>T1 would also lower success rates for the T3 and T4. This is still a superior strategy for total affixes but also makes T4/T5 harder than they really are (by themselves). Viewed pessimistically, this boils down to whether T4=>T5 is more desirable than T1=>T2 and T0=>T1 combined. But if T1=>T2/T0=>T1 were independent, each success rate would be WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).
Also, a fractured affix opens up interactions with runes. Suppose you could annul/cleanse it to salvage a base. Or suppose you couldn’t (as in PoE), and cleansing the item would ignore the fractured affix (with success rate penalties for the other three slots).
Thats the only thing i agree with.
I hope there will be some easy low tier crafts that arent gambling.
Iam however glad that it isnt easy to craft mirror tier items to easily as in POE.
Also the drop system of exalted items being only able to get of drops is a real good system aswell in my opinion.
I just think that only gamble crafts even for the tier 1’s should be 1 way lower or 2 just for materials without the breaking mechanic. Its not fun breaking items with trash tiers on it which happend way more then it should in my opinion
This is an extremely interesting idea. I wonder if having it in conjunction with the spending extra shards for better odds (even if they had a limit, rather than going to 100%) with scaling costs per total tier of the item could put this into a better spot.
It doesn’t get away from the RNG, but it does give you a lot more control and even some strategic options about how you want to go about the whole process.
I think it should be punishing so the item drops are still worth it aswell. However the balance is off in my opinion. The costs of using glyphs and materials just to make a tier 3 item and break it is just mad
Because of the exalted system i assumed that the lower tiers would be easier to get.
They could even restrict it at a certain level. So to be clear: at level 60 you only pay materials for tier ones and tier 2’s or after level 60 the instabillity of lower tiers are reduced.
Why it higher level? Because you get better gear anyway so lower tiers arent that usefull as in early game. At the same time you dont make the crafting system overpowered in the early leveling stage.
I think the crafting system on lower tiers is to punishing. Iam not saying its impossible to make higher tier items.
Iam stating that its just not fun/fair to get minor fractured items with items that only has tier 2’s and/or 3’s. Sometimes even with 1 and 2’s and maybe one 3.
I know mike stated that he tested the system a lot which i believe but having a chance of 85% and breaking it so many times at those lower tiers should be reduced in my opinion.
Iam not opting for easy crafting mirror tier items. Iam opting on having a better chance and especially a fairer and fun expierence while starting with crafting.
Now i get good bases and often i dont get behind tier 3 like i said before. I even use the 2-5 glyph first before i use the add 5 stabillity one.
Suppose 95% is the cap–you’ll always have that 5% chance it fails, and ideally it has a chance to just do nothing or fracture rather than automatically fracture if it does roll that 1 / 20.
Well, if you pick up a base item that already has that t3 prefix on it, your instability will be considerably lower, so you may not need to pay extra shards to reach t4, or you might be paying a lot less of them.
You also have the option to just roll the dice and not pay any extra shards.
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I think some of the frustrations we have now would still be present, but I think they would be greatly mitigated since we would have a lot more agency in the process. Yeah, we all get unlucky sometimes, but this creates a cost/benefit choice to make. People who are more conservative about their resources might be willing to just play the RNG route over a longer period, knowing they will end up paying less in the end. More risk averse types can just grind more and maximize their chances of success.
I think this also would help bridge the gap between player types so we don’t have some large segment feeling totally alienated by the lack of options/control.
Increasing the costs doesnt change the fact of being able to making really good crafts to easy. Thats why i dont like what you are proposing for higher tiers.
If you can get everything easy the purpose of the grind is gone for me, if that makes sense.
I think there is a missconception that if you just make certain features cost more gold or shards that the feature is fixed. There are even more ways now with the new system to get gold easier and shards easier. Because of that it will be easier to get those higher costs.
You would craft really good items faster because of it and i would get bored of the game faster. There should be a challence aswell in my opinion.
I think a good solution would be that higher level item bases have a higher success rate when you craft lower tier affixes onto them (T1-T2 for sure, T3 maybe slightly better, but above that, unchanged)
The risk here is increasing the value of shards (notably rare ones) making it even more painful when items fracture. Not only did you brick the base, but you lost half of your “+X skill” affix shards as well.
For a shard sink, I like the gambling suggestion someone made a thread for.
You can only craft to t5 anyway, so I don’t really see this as a problem. Providing a sink for the extra shards also potentially provides more reason to grind (depending on player attitude toward using that option).
True but with tier 5’s you already have a really strong item. What is the fun of it if you can get it easy? For me the exalted items are extra’s to hunt for (chase gear), that doesnt mean that because exalted exist the rest of the crafting should be easy, even on higher tiers.
For me crafting should have an exciting feeling vs a challenging feeling. To get the right balance is hard imo.
Well if the numbers (I know they were just examples) were adjusted and the drop rate of some rarer shards weren’t quite as rare, I could see it as a decent way of giving the player more crafting agency.
Oh also you think people are upset at failing their 90% crafts now? Just wait until they fail their 90% crafts after spending all their skill shards.
(Not saying this as a way of discounting the suggestion itself, but man, even I’d be tempted to make a thread complaining about crafting RNG after losing 20 skill shards.)
I agree, in the example numbers provided, I think cutting it down to max 10% and with each additional shard adding 1% would be reasonable.
Though that still feels a bit too strong for common shards (and a tad too expensive for rare ones). The problem is that there’s a great difference in rarity between shards, which make a system like this a little hard to balance.
It depends on what you mean by “easy.” Clicking a button and letting RNG do its thing can be seen as “easy.” Just grinding a lot can be “easy.” I don’t think this is such a straightforward point as you make it sound.
I think it provides another layer of chase when it comes to loot in the game–and this game sorely needs it–because it’s pretty much just unique/set/exalted right now. If making a piece with a few t4 or t5 affixes is too uncommon, I’ll get bored really fast anyway. To some degree, I already have.
Crafting feels terrible
Respec sucks
Redoing echo progress for each build sucks
Campaign is too drawn out with no purpose to care about it other than idols (for your alts, at least)
Loot isn’t exciting (and partially because crafting isn’t) other than uniques
Something’s gotta give. This idea that things would become “too easy” as some reason to not make them feel better to engage with is seriously hobbling this game. It’s better to fix these systems and rebalance enemies to be more challenging than to leave the systems crippled to fit the current challenge level of enemies.
Yeah, like I said, it still carries some of the problems the current system does. At least with that example, though, it points to player decision to burn the extra shards. They don’t have to.
