Craft Fake % succes

I crafted this from white last night, I was quite surprised.

https://imgur.com/9F8onnF

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I consider that a win. 55% increased ele damage implicit is nice

If that is intended, then it is working perfectly. :smiley:

Itā€™s because so much of loot centers around crafting. Of the set items I have seen so far, none are all that exciting, even if they are good. Uniques are about the only exciting drops, but only if I havenā€™t seen that base before. I donā€™t need a 63rd Vipertail.

I actually considered this option already, but I believe that as more content is added to the game, we will eventually face power creep that introduces higher tier affixes (t8+), so if the crafting caps stays at t5, your relative crafting potential isnā€™t actually that nuts.

That said, maybe it would be appropriate for it to be t4 for now if they did implement those other changes until we do see that other content/power creep, as long as they raise it back to t5 when those things happen.

Two of the items being exalted means these are already behind the T6+ RNG wall, not sure if all of the affixes are exactly what you wanted (like health on kill), but letā€™s say you didnā€™t want health on kill this is an easy rip with removals being a 50-50 at best.

We are looking at an easy 200h+ farm time on these gears. Some people have 2k hours in LE and like to boast about it.
I personally donā€™t justify this amount of grind for myself at this stage of the game, and find that this rng grind is favoring nolifing poe style

After many patches I had accumulated plenty of triple/quad T5 crafts from the beginning of open beta that are now junk due to mechanics changes (which i agree is inevitable at this stage of beta):
New armor tiers (gladiator ā†’ solarium), affix changes (glancing blow), prefix/suffix moved (suffix=defense etc), base items changed: the latest change, I had a bunch of Titan Blades for a fire FG, that now are Hollow Blades for VKs. I simply dont want to farm more than 100h per patch at this stage, I dont even have a single completed T6+ item and many of those super rare affixes I have 5 to 20 shards each (uncraftable)

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Talking about GD, the current iteration is also the result of many changes, one of which of some months ago.

Rares in GD are drop based rather than crafted and very simplified (1 pre 1 suff), so called double rares drops have been buffed a lot in the last patch, you can drop them normally (as opposed of before these were almost impossible)

The craft & farm loop after FG expansion is more about farming and dropping the sets recipes and then farming ingredients to craft the entire set.

Additionally, it is a single player game, you can have an infinite stash via tools and with the same tools you choose your grinding target, you can farm it for real or you can lower the knob and spawn your ingredients and skip some hours of mindless farming, or you can directly spawn your whole set ā€œfor scienceā€

I personally wish LE was more similar to GD, because i enjoy the grind loop a lot more: a drop of a double rare feels great, same for a set recipe or the ingredients themselves that allow you to complete your set, and i can have them all in my infinite stash and hoard them for my future chars (which is hard to do in LE with limitations to inventory etc)
So far I donā€™t know what could be done in LE to make it better like GD

I get it but it is not a 4xT5. Lightning dmg + non-melee crit chance + minion dmg on a bleed base is it useful at all? It would be a skip for my filter

Try now to remove minion dmg and also crit chance and try to craft two T5 affixes

I do like GD a lot, but havenā€™t played any post FG patches.
LE really needs to take some inspiration from GDā€™s set and epic/legendary items, theyā€™re all so fun to craft builds around.

Iā€™m not talking about itā€™s usefulness, Iā€™m talking about the abundance of loot available now. Get off your asses and go find it :grin:

I have to pass and quoting myself:

This patch iā€™ve farmed (~50h) with the VK that is fast and managed to re-craft a decent set on 100 timelines.
With the current systems I just canā€™t do it on another char, Iā€™ve tried on the FG that doesnā€™t have the 100 unlocked and Iā€™m exhausted already with a bunch of patchwork 4xT3s items, too much grind with the risk of doing it again and again next patches :frowning:

I get it. Itā€™s the beta grind. Iā€™ve been in some betas where it was a guaranteed wipe every patch. It was the only way they could implement the new changes into the old. People would go nuts, even though they agreed to it lol. It takes a toll for sure starting over and over. Thatā€™s when I fall back for a while and let the devs tinker away on things.

Covid still is a thing, and the team is working seperately across the world on their first game together. It will be a while for the finished product for sure. I genuinely suggest not pushing so hard to burn yourselves out.

plz donā€™t put this out of context.

Warframe for example. The RNG is with getting the crafting receipt and the materials. And both of these are somewhat target farmable.

Itā€™s a different itemisation system, for sure. But that game mastered the loot spiral for me.

And as I tried to make clear: Itā€™s not about making things easier. Itā€™s to make it feel better.

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Warframeā€™s RNG just kills me, yeah target farm those prime parts, woops, 30 missions later and youā€™re still missing it? Better start farming keys so you can get access to the actual farming location, or spam trade for a few hours trying to trade parts for parts.

Look, I enjoyed Warframe for quite a few hours, but farming in that can be hell.

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hahah YOU ARE SO LUCKY :stuck_out_tongue:

Well thats the thing, POE does have many RNG stuff but it also has many non RNG stuff.
So i dont understand were your statement is coming from.
Do i need to make a picture of the poe benchcraft and the harvest crafts to make clear that there is 0 RNG involved on those crafts? Yes you got annulments etc, just like LE has now.

Thats the thing i really dont get.
All the things that you find in delve and from the syndicate members are determenestic. Non RNG based. You find the craft you literally walk to your bench, click your craft done. No 80% brick chance etc.

Its a pretty big list compaired to the tier 1ā€™s that you can craft with 100% like NukedGypsy showed. Which you can only get with the glyph scroll (so even an extra cost compaired to POE) .
Yes beside those craft and now even more crafts of harvest there is RNG crafting.

How is the LE system considered determenestic compaired to POEā€™s system? While LE clearly only has an RNG based system. That keeps baffeling me. Thats just strictly not true.
You can craft really early while leveling in POE and the only thing you pay are the costs.

In LE you pay Shards, Scrolls and Instabillity/rng. Were is the determenistic part?
Picking the scrolls? Is that why certain streamers and you guys are so happy about?
I really dont understand why, because its a 99% RNG based system were you have little influence with the scrolls so you lower the chance of bricking it.

Again guys, please look up what determenistic really is, then you know that LEā€™s crafting system is not.

Yes you did, that was really determenistic :stuck_out_tongue: i loved those tier ones Kappa.

In mathematics, computer science and physics, a deterministic system is a system in which no randomness is involved in the development of future states of the system.[1] A deterministic model will thus always produce the same output from a given starting condition or initial state.[2]

Wikipedia.

Beside wikipedia there are many more websites describing this, even for games. Iam posting it since you wont believe me.

Those are basic things while deciding what type of game system, loot system, crafting system etc you will make. How much RNG you want a game to have. And there is the so called good RNG and bad RNG. This is a big thing in card games like hearthstone MTG which i played a lot. Chess is a whole different story.

Anyways sorry guys but its just not true what you say about the LE system.
You can like it or not, its not determenistic, period. You can like the system and thats fine. I like it like i said many times before for the higher tiers.
And @NukedGypsy tier 3ā€™s are not high in my opinion because of the state my character is in. Tier 3ā€™s i consider trash items but thats just me sorry.

Iam taking a brake of this thread. Before iam getting more annoyed because people keep saying LEā€™s system has determenistic crafting lol.
I going to brick some more items in LE.

Ciao guys.

Thatā€™s all you had to say in the first place. I donā€™t know what would make you happy then. Luckily Iā€™m not here to try or to convince you of anything. I proved my point in showing how 1 person can consistently craft good items pertaining to a build they desire. Good luck in your crafts Meesterg!

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Then you completely missed the point. I never said it is possible to craft good items.
I try 1 more time.
I DONT LIKE THE PERCENTAGES OF BRICKING AN ITEM ON TIER 1,2 and 3. I would love to seeing them being lowered.
I LOVE THE REST OF THE SYSTEM DESPITE IT NOT BEING DETERMENISTIC CRAFTING. Sorry thats just what it is i didnt invent itā€¦ but yeah if you think you made your point its all good :wink:

And yes you showed how you can craft good items. I showed you that you can brick items easy aswell. Whats your point?

With showing a few pictures and saying you constantly crafting good items doesnt make it so that i have the same results does it? Thats the whole point of Randomness.
You pretend like the Randomness is not random and if it is destermistic crafting which again, its not.

Iam complaining about bricking items to easily on tier 1-2-3. I tend to find those tiers low since my characters mostly improve if the tiers are 5, 6 or 7.

In a system were you got 7 tiers i consider 1,2 and 3 to be low anyway. Especially when you dont have a bench craft like POE with crafts in it that doesnt involve any RNG, i think the percentages of those lower tiers could be lower for a better experience with crafting. I would probably brick less items with my unluck then.

You can debate all you want about liking the percentages how they are now and that is fair.
I will keep disagreeing with you or anyone who says that this system is determenistic. Thats just again not true, i didnt invent that or came up with that just to make my point. That is just how it is. Again look it up :yawning_face:

Iam aware that there is a better chance of getting a good item when you find a good base with higher tiers already on it. But again THAT WASNT MY POINT iam purerly talking about tier 1,2,3 while crafting on an item without any affixes on it or with 1/2 affixes on it with tier 1/2 or 3.

Iam typing way to long again, now i really going to brick items.

Thanks man! Lets beat that pity timer :sweat_smile: :wink:

Your frustration comes from:
1. RNG systems that always feel bad when an unfavorable result is achieved.
2. The inherent way statistics work. When you brick an item a few crafts into it, you do not
brick it directly from the odds of that one craft. It bricks after accumulated addition of
all crafts.

Disclaimer, this is not literally how it works, just wanted to highlight why bricking items at higher chances is not as rare as you may think because of the percentages give at time of craft.

When you complete a craft at 90% chance to succeed, your chance of fracturing is 10%. Then, you complete a second craft at 80% where chance to fracture is 20%. However, now think about what the chance of success is for both crafts together. You will have 90% x 80% = 72% chance to succeed in both crafts at the same time.

Then, you add a third one which is 70% chance to succeed. Then you do 90% x 80% x 70% = 50.4% chance for success for all 3 crafts consecutively.

So, even though you had 70% chance to succeed at any given craft(which sounds very likely to succeed), your odds of completing multiple crafts successfully go down exponentially.

The result for 3 crafts above means that if you craft 2 items with 3 crafts like this, on average, at least one will brick.

I hope this helps. As I mentioned, disclaimer, this is not up to the developers or anything like that, this is how statistics works.

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I believe youā€™re confusing aspects of the system. When we say that LEā€™s crafting is deterministic, we mean that you get to choose what is crafted onto the item, and upon success you get a deterministic result, the affix you chose is now on the item. Many of (but perhaps not all) of PoEā€™s crafting do not allow this.

Now, you might consider that you have a chance at success or a chance at failure, and that makes it nondeterministic. Which is true to an extent, but eschews the fact that such things as pseudo-random number generators exist, which are deterministic. Without knowing for certain that they (EHG) use a pseudo-random number generator, I would probably say that yes technically LEā€™s crafting is nondeterministic(however this could be argued to some extent). Its likely, however, that they do use a pseudo-random number generator rather than a truly random number generator. This means that even if you fail a craft, it was technically deterministic you just now have two ending states for the item depending on a result from the input. A algorithm can be deterministic without having only a single path through it. Whatā€™s key is that the input is the same each time, and part of that input is the pseudo-random number that was used with any particular item.

Another layer to this is critical success and the 3 fracture types ā€“ but again, these (likely) rely on the pseudo-random number.

Ultimately, barring some sort of true random number generator, it can be said with relative certainty that LEā€™s crafting is deterministic.