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Please no AH or bazzar. Instanced party trading is okay

I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs would like to know what trade is going to look like…

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Haha fair point, so many people want/expect trade to be a certain way, it is a touchy subject that has to be extremely aggravating for the devs to tackle. It is quite obvious no system will appease everyone, I just hope whichever route they go, everyone can partake regardless of how much/little they play.

Trading in PoE turned into such a shit show I ended up giving SSF a try, and it gave me an entirely different outlook as well as an obviously new approach to how I played. I am in the crowd that wouldn’t necessarily be upset if trade was scraped, but more ways to play is obviously better.

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Who are you to know what happens in the heads of most people to say something like this?

Sure a ton of people want to get something for their effort that’s true and as old as humanity. Then again there are a LOT of people who work togheter in loot driven games and you should not forget those people.

RMT is bad, chat spam is bad, bots are bad and so on and so forth but trading isn’t. Trading is just trading but what comes along with it is realy bad yeah.

If too many people want such stuff it’s healthy for a game to implement it to keep players instead of driving them away by prohibition of trading.

That’s not a binary thing and only good or only bad.

Look at this I completely agree 100% with the idea buuuut without restrictions this opens the door wide for RMT and botting and whatnot. PoE is the best example and i just checked it out. You are able to RMT there far to much why I pointed out the option some posts above to let people form trading cycles that have restrctions in player numers that can participate and time gates to be ready to trade and to get into a new group of players to trade with them. This should pretty much hurt RMT or make it not worth.

Huh? You obviously didn’t understand what I was saying at all to reply with this.

I will try and explain this in even simpler terms so you might get it.

“gifting/sharing/donating” means one person gives another an item WITH NOTHING IN RETURN. No reciprocal item, no currency, no vouchers, stamps, or bicycle parts - NOTHING.

So, if NOTHING is received, then there is NO BENEFIT and therefore NO ECONOMY.

With NO ECONOMY there is nothing to RMT, or to be gained with BOTS. If they can make no money or there is nothing to be gained, then NO DOORS ARE OPENED.

I really do hope this makes something that was already pretty simple even simpler to understand. If that fails, then I’ll have no resort other than to simply put it down to trolling, and go down my usual recourse with trolls which is to block them. I sincerely hope this is not the case.

Back when I played D2 I recall services that allowed other players to purchase items out of game (on a website) and then that seller would “gift/share/donate” these items to the player that purchased them. The seller obtained these items via the various Bot farms they had running and sell them for real money, thus being an example of Botting and RMT.

Doesn’t your suggestion allow for the same thing? Sure, the seller receives nothing in the game, but outside of it they’re receiving real money.

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Yeah, I guess you can work around anything with the will to do it.

Ok, I give in. Frankly I’ve got better things to do with my life than spend it fruitlessly in here. I said my opinion and I can’t be bothered with anything more.

Sure, let’s have trading in LE. Let’s have an economy. Let’s have all the EZ mode that modern gamers seem to want. In fact, let’s just have another identical clone of the other popular ARPGs. Why bother with Beta testing at all? All some people seem to want is exactly what’s in other games anyway, so quite why they’re even here and not playing those other games boggles the mind, or it would if a mind was present.

Then some of us can pop back in a couple of years, admire the desolation, and have the scant reward of saying “we told you so”.

I’m out. Have fun.

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Dude stretched the goal posts pretty much as far as possible with his retort, lmao I dont blame ya. This is why I said it is fruitless to further discuss the matter until a dev chimes in with something tangible.

Did Grim Dawn ever have an active trading community? I know people did and still do (which is weird since there are user made apps that let you make whatever item you want), but was it ever a huge thing? I got to the game a bit late, but in the 1k+ hours playing I never felt I needed to trade to progress. Min maxing im sure is a different story.

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No problem, I’ll be here to “totally concidentally” gift you something that we “absolutely did not agree was a reasonable trade” for that Bastion you gave me.

I’m hoping for some kind of proper MMO ‘auction house’ type setup. One one one player selling is usually painful. If you’ve ever played POE you know that it can often take a very long time to find someone actually willing to take a moment from their busy busy ‘life’ to actually make the trade. This would also prevent a lot of POE-style price fixing where Johnny Chubb and his pals put things up for low or high prices on items they don’t intend to sell in an attempt to influence the economy.

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The example of Grim Dawn’s trading (and to a lesser extent, trading in Titan Quest) is where my mind goes each time one of these threads pops up.

I agree with each of your points. Trading never felt necessary nor did it ever occur often - but it was an entirely open system with virtually no restrictions.

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While I do not want it to seem as though I do not appreciate EHG for their work on LE, I think that veterans of the genre can agree that most ARPGs are often more similar than they are different. Outside of a few innovative design choices, abilities, and passive interactions, there is only so much you can do within the setting of a fantasy ARPG.

When we compare purely single player ARPG titles such as Victor Vran (released 2015, averaging ~20 daily players) and The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing (released 2013, averaging ~30 daily players) to multiplayer ARPG titles such as Titan Quest (released 2006, averaging ~1000 daily players) and Grim Dawn (released 2016, averaging ~3000 daily players), we can start to recognize that multiplayer elements increase the longevity of a game and are more successful at retaining players. Even Dungeon Siege II, one of my all-time favourite ARPGs, has a higher average player count than both Victor Vran and The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing - and it was released in 2005.

Appropriate steps must be taken to ensure that multiplayer is more than just having a companion in your party that may as well be an NPC. Including an economy in some form is vital.

While I remain skeptical of the proposed systems, I understand that EHG is greatly compromising in order to reduce the negative impacts of real-world trading and botting. My only hope is that this compromise does not impose on the player’s experience.

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Funny enough I share this sentiment with a number of players in this community.
We usually sit back and watch from a distance attempting more efficient ways of channeling our voices with the best of intentions for the game.

Those that lurk have some incredible feedback that nobody get’s to consider.
Few have the patience or the will to endure what go’s on here. They just don’t care enough to deal with the mess. It’s very unfortunate and damaging in several collective opinions.

We have been around for years now avoiding this place. Finally ,myself just participating in these forums for my first 24 hours ever felt like a social experiment. I would have to say it’s been the worst experience I’ve ever had on a community gaming forum. What’s even worse is that I knew about and was prepared for it.

IF I was a new player looking to get involved in the community through these forums, with little experience, I might have felt like my opinions didn’t matter and I was treated dismissively by the inhabitants of the deep and dark forum-main shadow realm.

These agents flapping about while they flex their bones, giving off a mentality like this is some kind of Gen Pop Yard Juvenile Maximum Security Detention Centre. If anyone steps to you. boy, you better be ready to throw down and type furiously. It’s comically ridiculous.

It’s not a very welcoming place. I see a lot of new players immediately being turned off and watching from a distance. I know this to be true, because we have been accumulating like a small army out on the peripherals.

It’s entertaining just to entertain it for a little while and play the part.

After the initial 24 hours, I have had my fill.

This is literally happening. I have friends who turned away from the game entirely due to what the ‘community’ feels like right now. Waiting for 1.0 and rechecking the community will determine if they all play.

Is this a wrong way of thinking? Nah, some people just don’t want the bullshit. Just wanting to play the game, look up some forum info if need be, etc. But right now, most forum topics have one or more shitty attitudes, and frankly just rude. I agree with them, but somewhat swim just fine with the horsemen, vapours, and etc. Just my observations.

Well what i think is there should be a trading system, atleast for gear, imagine you got a very good gear but you dont need it for your build, you should be able to trade it for something that you will use

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Well, I think restricting trading is usually causes more frustrations than it solves.

In a game that has any sort of trading, there’s going to become some level of market consensus about what is ‘valuable’—so I think its always to the benefit of everyone to have an open trade market with a proper currency (gold) rather than pseudo currencies (orbs in Path of exile, for example). That way players are empowered to sort, collect, and exchange loot amongst themselves.

Trade restrictions should typically be reserved for scam prevention and RMT prevention, since that was mentioned above. Only having open party trading seems to worsen both of those hazard points.

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It highly depends on the topic :D. Not everything is bad but trading threads for example tend to explode sooner or later without any expectations ^^.

I don’t want to derail this topic but I want to encourage you to make a feedback thread about it elsewhere because this might be intresting feedback for some.

Not worth all the bad things that come with trading. Just save it for another build you can make down the line. Or don’t and salvage it for mats so you can make stuff for your build.

Imagine just playing the game and finding gear for yourself instead of trading 1/4 the time you are playing instead. Lots of people play this game the way it is now. It is fine the way it is. It does not need to get wrecked with nerfing loot to balance for multiplayer. Just let me play with my friends and have self found loot. No bots, no trade chat rmt spam. No rmt. No pricing items to sell for AH. No trading scams. Nothing. Just playing the game.

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nevermind

I just don’t want to be forced to sell stuff on an AH or a marketplace to play the game efficiently. I don’t want to SHOP for upgrades. Please no economy simulator and wealth simulator.

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Who ever xame up with this… sigh. I have some toons that have rather good gear and I have to play for days aka 30+ ingame hours untill i find an upgrade. There is nothing to be nerfed because the better your gear is the slower the progression will went and the less stuff is traded.

I like to have meaningfull drops for sure but this never happened to me in the same speed and with the same luck as for everyone else. I’m just unlucky and woul’d be a happy panda if someone says “hey look at this this might be good for your build!” and it is good. if there is no auction house or some third party stuff like in PoE trading will balance itself pretty fast.

Play self found then your problem solved without any issues for anyone else.

I’m with you on this one and the problem is: As soon as there is a trade system you’ll have this in some way shape or form. There are still ways to negate this IF the devs want to but this will be a battle anyway untill you play ssf.