Dude stretched the goal posts pretty much as far as possible with his retort, lmao I dont blame ya. This is why I said it is fruitless to further discuss the matter until a dev chimes in with something tangible.
Did Grim Dawn ever have an active trading community? I know people did and still do (which is weird since there are user made apps that let you make whatever item you want), but was it ever a huge thing? I got to the game a bit late, but in the 1k+ hours playing I never felt I needed to trade to progress. Min maxing im sure is a different story.
No problem, Iâll be here to âtotally concidentallyâ gift you something that we âabsolutely did not agree was a reasonable tradeâ for that Bastion you gave me.
Iâm hoping for some kind of proper MMO âauction houseâ type setup. One one one player selling is usually painful. If youâve ever played POE you know that it can often take a very long time to find someone actually willing to take a moment from their busy busy âlifeâ to actually make the trade. This would also prevent a lot of POE-style price fixing where Johnny Chubb and his pals put things up for low or high prices on items they donât intend to sell in an attempt to influence the economy.
The example of Grim Dawnâs trading (and to a lesser extent, trading in Titan Quest) is where my mind goes each time one of these threads pops up.
I agree with each of your points. Trading never felt necessary nor did it ever occur often - but it was an entirely open system with virtually no restrictions.
While I do not want it to seem as though I do not appreciate EHG for their work on LE, I think that veterans of the genre can agree that most ARPGs are often more similar than they are different. Outside of a few innovative design choices, abilities, and passive interactions, there is only so much you can do within the setting of a fantasy ARPG.
When we compare purely single player ARPG titles such as Victor Vran (released 2015, averaging ~20 daily players) and The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing (released 2013, averaging ~30 daily players) to multiplayer ARPG titles such as Titan Quest (released 2006, averaging ~1000 daily players) and Grim Dawn (released 2016, averaging ~3000 daily players), we can start to recognize that multiplayer elements increase the longevity of a game and are more successful at retaining players. Even Dungeon Siege II, one of my all-time favourite ARPGs, has a higher average player count than both Victor Vran and The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing - and it was released in 2005.
Appropriate steps must be taken to ensure that multiplayer is more than just having a companion in your party that may as well be an NPC. Including an economy in some form is vital.
While I remain skeptical of the proposed systems, I understand that EHG is greatly compromising in order to reduce the negative impacts of real-world trading and botting. My only hope is that this compromise does not impose on the playerâs experience.
Funny enough I share this sentiment with a number of players in this community.
We usually sit back and watch from a distance attempting more efficient ways of channeling our voices with the best of intentions for the game.
Those that lurk have some incredible feedback that nobody getâs to consider.
Few have the patience or the will to endure what goâs on here. They just donât care enough to deal with the mess. Itâs very unfortunate and damaging in several collective opinions.
We have been around for years now avoiding this place. Finally ,myself just participating in these forums for my first 24 hours ever felt like a social experiment. I would have to say itâs been the worst experience Iâve ever had on a community gaming forum. Whatâs even worse is that I knew about and was prepared for it.
IF I was a new player looking to get involved in the community through these forums, with little experience, I might have felt like my opinions didnât matter and I was treated dismissively by the inhabitants of the deep and dark forum-main shadow realm.
These agents flapping about while they flex their bones, giving off a mentality like this is some kind of Gen Pop Yard Juvenile Maximum Security Detention Centre. If anyone steps to you. boy, you better be ready to throw down and type furiously. Itâs comically ridiculous.
Itâs not a very welcoming place. I see a lot of new players immediately being turned off and watching from a distance. I know this to be true, because we have been accumulating like a small army out on the peripherals.
Itâs entertaining just to entertain it for a little while and play the part.
This is literally happening. I have friends who turned away from the game entirely due to what the âcommunityâ feels like right now. Waiting for 1.0 and rechecking the community will determine if they all play.
Is this a wrong way of thinking? Nah, some people just donât want the bullshit. Just wanting to play the game, look up some forum info if need be, etc. But right now, most forum topics have one or more shitty attitudes, and frankly just rude. I agree with them, but somewhat swim just fine with the horsemen, vapours, and etc. Just my observations.
Well what i think is there should be a trading system, atleast for gear, imagine you got a very good gear but you dont need it for your build, you should be able to trade it for something that you will use
Well, I think restricting trading is usually causes more frustrations than it solves.
In a game that has any sort of trading, thereâs going to become some level of market consensus about what is âvaluableââso I think its always to the benefit of everyone to have an open trade market with a proper currency (gold) rather than pseudo currencies (orbs in Path of exile, for example). That way players are empowered to sort, collect, and exchange loot amongst themselves.
Trade restrictions should typically be reserved for scam prevention and RMT prevention, since that was mentioned above. Only having open party trading seems to worsen both of those hazard points.
It highly depends on the topic :D. Not everything is bad but trading threads for example tend to explode sooner or later without any expectations ^^.
I donât want to derail this topic but I want to encourage you to make a feedback thread about it elsewhere because this might be intresting feedback for some.
Not worth all the bad things that come with trading. Just save it for another build you can make down the line. Or donât and salvage it for mats so you can make stuff for your build.
Imagine just playing the game and finding gear for yourself instead of trading 1/4 the time you are playing instead. Lots of people play this game the way it is now. It is fine the way it is. It does not need to get wrecked with nerfing loot to balance for multiplayer. Just let me play with my friends and have self found loot. No bots, no trade chat rmt spam. No rmt. No pricing items to sell for AH. No trading scams. Nothing. Just playing the game.
I just donât want to be forced to sell stuff on an AH or a marketplace to play the game efficiently. I donât want to SHOP for upgrades. Please no economy simulator and wealth simulator.
Who ever xame up with this⌠sigh. I have some toons that have rather good gear and I have to play for days aka 30+ ingame hours untill i find an upgrade. There is nothing to be nerfed because the better your gear is the slower the progression will went and the less stuff is traded.
I like to have meaningfull drops for sure but this never happened to me in the same speed and with the same luck as for everyone else. Iâm just unlucky and woulâd be a happy panda if someone says âhey look at this this might be good for your build!â and it is good. if there is no auction house or some third party stuff like in PoE trading will balance itself pretty fast.
Play self found then your problem solved without any issues for anyone else.
Iâm with you on this one and the problem is: As soon as there is a trade system youâll have this in some way shape or form. There are still ways to negate this IF the devs want to but this will be a battle anyway untill you play ssf.
This isnt exactly true, 99% of the items you find are useless to you. and only 1% is an upgrade. But 99% of the items you find potentially have a use for someone else.
once the market gets going finding upgrades will be trivial unless there is a limit to what can be traded.
lets say an item with a single exalted affix has 1000 variables so finding the one you want is 1/1000, well if you drop 100 exalted a week, then 10,000 players drop 1 million exalted a week. Which means in 2 weeks, there is 1000 copies of the exact item you want on average.
This isnt even considering that once the game gets rolling and trade is a thing, people will be farming temporal sanctum for exalted items like crazy because it will most likely be the best strat to get exalted to trade to make money to buy the one you want.
Basically its not âwhoever came up with thisâ its just a mathematically fact of the genre. Free trade + more players = exponential potential in upgrades.
Atleast for me, I dont really care about free trade if people want it, let them go ham the only caveat is if the devs decide to balance the game around trade and the answer to feedback of âthis item is too rareâ is âjust trade 5headâ then the game is just gonna burn a large number of players.
or even worse the trade crowd gets going and trades around insane gear then goes âthe game is too easy please nerf everything so we can have fun with the op items we easy moded intoâ
Trade has compounding effects that is very scary for a player who enjoys progression but wants it to be actually obtainable in a reasonable time rather then selling peanuts to buy it.
Should there be a small increase in loot something something since your group is getting far less loot than those with instanced loot? There will need to be an incentive, otherwise, itâs not really intelligent to do so. Even if its âenjoyableâ (this is a game, not an entertainment product, ugh.), the inefficiency is so⌠huge. imo anyway. Just curious of your thoughts on this.
I dont know how old you are, but Iâm assuming 40+. The new/newer generation of gamers are pretty much the latter. I do blame the streamlining of the industry on this, but as a result, this is the stuff we have. Itâs just reality and sucks.
And I believe âall it comes along withâ is justifiable to nix trading as an economy. Instanced trading (with friends present) is literally the best solution Iâve found on these discussions. It solves all the issues other than âThis dropped when my friend took out the trash.â â is not good enough to justify a trading economy.
And it is indeed a good solution to the problem. But I disagree it is completely fair. There literally will be no âcompletely fairâ way because people are really good at using the right words to spin an idea perfectly. Someone will always have a good reason that this âjust isnt workingâ. I⌠have no work-around for this.
Oh? Can you explain how? Open party trading is what I feel is the best solution, but if you have good reasons against, I need to hear! Kind of excited tbh!
After finishing PoE league I bought D2R and decided to play offline instead of online for 2 main reasons: I can respec stats over and over without being at end game and the other was I didnt want to trade and play SSF however offline in D2 I can increase the player count artificially so the mobs are harder/drop more loot/xp
Ive played 80% on players/7 and now players/8 (loot caps at players/7) including boss farming etc, ive found some extremely rare items in a few weeks players take forever to find and also increased rune drops
The point how this relates to LE is if the drop rates are changed to accommodate online play, then let the players artificially increase the difficulty so we get more drops solo at the cost of a further multplier to damage/hp for example in D2 at players 8 Mobs have 450% more HP, 45% more damage and give 567% more xp
Why would non-instanced loot give a party less? Wouldnât it give 4x the amount of loot a single player would get just in a single big lootsplosion that everybody can see/take from rather than 4 smaller ones that only each player can see/take?
Isnât this negating itself if other people look for the same item as well?
Here i go again: i donât care for trading at all because trading to me is a waste of gametime. I just want to be able to give a friend an item if heâs in need and I have one. Thatâs all I need trading for and for nothing else :).
Yes, definitely! Generally the more open the trading system, the more players have the power within the system to gain what they want. The more restrictive the trading system, the more incentive is created to find ways âaroundâ restrictions to gain what you want out of a trade.
Both parties have a much more consistent and reliable trading experience on something like a RuneScape GE vs. PoE trading, for example. Not to say either of those are being proposed (obviously RuneScapeâs bigger picture trading system is practically famous for its scamming and RMT), but its an example of the general principle in action.
I havenât played enough LE to gain the experience to confidently propose anything that would be a good fit for the game quite yet, but having played plenty of PoE and now joining LE I believe LE can have something less restrictive and more open so trade is easier, more reliable, and can help all the players get what they want out of trade.
Edit: Iâll add, it seems like many players are concerned with trade causing balance issues, particularly for late game. I know the feeling of a situation where it feels like you can only complete the endgame content you want to play after grinding very long hours to trade for extremely rare âGod-rollâ items. I also oppose this, but in my experience this is usually a result of poor development philosophy around balance than it is an issue with trading. There will always be some players who can commit enough time to make builds that are absolutely insane (Great!), but its incumbent of the developers to balance the game around the majority of players, not the highest echelon of players with the most sunken time and in-game wealth.
The more restrictive the trade the worse this issue gets as well, since typically itâs that upper echelon of players who would have the in-game means to navigate the more restrictive trading system more easily, not the average or even above-average player.
SSF builds should also not be made unviable because an elite caste of twitch streamers (who play for a day job) can cheese the highest difficulty content. Yet, SSF is only a challenge if trading exists.
