So if I equip Eye of Reen I can get to wave 3500 in the arena?
The issue is if you arent playing legit no one cares about your feedback
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So what are your thoughts about maces and their place in the current metagame?
Only used maces on Manifest Armor, they are a a weak base type, they dont even have Minion Melee affix
I was actually just stirring you up, I dont even follow/compete on the leaderboard in LE as its toxic however its not possible to do wave ‘2000’ without cheating as far as I know or some sort of exploit
When I pushed Ranks in D3 ladder top 1000 - the highest I got rank Rank #2 on North AMerica and everyone was within 1-2 tiers at the top and sometimes even seconds apart using almost the same build, if someone suddenly jumped up multiple tiers they were usually abusing an exploit as every setup was pretty much solved for that point in time
Am fully aware. I am very proud of my shield throw build since it uses many defensive layers (block, dodge, armour) and was certainly the one I had the most fun building towards. Have always been creating builds as a low-profile guy. I am not even a competitive person myself: I just like making good builds.
I am honestly sad that despite having very powerful stats, their recent mace is basically unplayable. I probably am one of the few to actually have a vengeance build out there using Iron Blades (bleed build), so I was tempted to give the mace a try and I got a one with 2 LP, I recall early on in the patch. I was very disappointed. I also cannot think of a crit. version for it.
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You said as much already, but the bulk of the mace problem comes down to the bigger picture of attack speed being too good and stun effectiveness being too weak. Altho part of the attack speed problem is weirdly aggravated by the Sentinel passive tree which privileges swords/axes with a godly AS passive, and another for 2h swords in FG tree, while maces get very underwhelming % Inc. Damage. If swords get what they already excel at, why not stick to the theme and give maces flat physical damage? Maybe it’s less a problem of AS being too good, but rather the credible alternative to AS has not yet been provided. (Forge Strike & melee Judgement being weak/awkward play into that too)
On the topic of stun, I’d like to see it reworked to a more deterministic and controllable system. Eg. a “stun bar” to fill up per enemy, with progress dependent on some function of base damage (maybe raised to some mild exponent, to privilege the slow-heavy weapon types?) and stun effectiveness. When you hit the target threshold, you stun the enemy. From there the progress unfills at a fast + accelerating rate, and stun ends when progress empties (this way, you can extend stun duration somewhat -but not indefinitely - by applying more stun power). Target for a new stun increases based on the duration that enemy has been stunned recently.
This would make stun-related stats much more reliable and visible as a tool to control enemies. I think the option of itemising towards a really consistent dedicated CC role will also be great for improving diversity and interesting gameplay in party play.
Since under this approach we’d expect fewer, stuns with longer durations, it would make sense to throw around a “More damage dealt to Stunned enemies” mod quite liberally on skills and items. This would further ensure the viability of maces, and also encourage a nice pattern where you prep your stun with 1 skill then drop your long CD offensive skill on the vulnerable enemy, which would be a bit more interactive than a lot of the present attack patterns.
Eye of reen Flame Reave builds have been a thing for a few years, especially when Firebrand was introduced.
Is that the wave 2000 shield throw build? I dont need a build guide for it. But its really simple to just share your build planner for this char. Let us see all the stats and uniques you used please. Takes you about 2min to upload.
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LP4 Notepad 
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I like your idea a lot. I believe the existing ailment system would provide a good way to build unto exactly what you describe (stun bar). For instance:
1 - Create a new ailment called “stun vulnerability”, lasts say 4 seconds and has a % chance for the target to be stunned on hit with a max cap.
2- Upon being stunned, the target gets a new ailment called “Stunned” increasing damage taken by a certain amount.
3- Finally, after “stunned” ends, the mob could get stun immunity for a bit of time.
Naturally, the numbers would have to be adjusted for party play. “Stun vulnerability” could become an implicit in maces and you create a playstyle where you’d be incentivized to unleash your big hard-hitting skill (judgement, erasing strike, …) after stunning the mob. Bosses would be less vulnerable to the ailment (exactly like resistance shred is right now).
What do you think?
Thanks for sharing! Have been playing since 0.8.2. I considered building Ignite Spellblade but did not push it: it seems I always have mana problems with that class.
Sorry Sylv, i dont wanna act like a dick here.
But you should understand that the majority of the community is sceptical about your pushes. Alot of players are playing this game for 2years+ and have alot of game knowledge+enough skill to push high waves.
We are all aware of uniques that are powerful that you mentioned, but we also know where the limits are.
I hope you understand with those unrealistic pushes (2000/3000 waves, and even your 1k, sub 1k pushes) you confuse alot of new players and you also dont represent LE and its community the right way. We are still a very small community, we are all aware that it is possible to manipulate game files. We all know what happenend to cheaters…
It doesnt matter if the game is offline or online, cheating is not allowed and any act of cheating should get punished. Its only fair to competitive players/content creators playing the game the right way and put alot of hours to reach a specific point with their chars. You know that there are people trying to make a living out of LE right? I feel bad for those guys when there are people like you destroying their reputation. You know that once Multiplayer comes out it will be impossible to reach those numbers again?
I personally find it questionable that you claim to be proud of your build, comments like that makes me very angry but only because i feel ashamed for you. You clearly try to avoid my request to show us your build planner, because we will immediately see that those chars are not legit. If you would be so proud of your insane push, you already would have uploaded a video on yt about it. Or a build guide…but you clearly try to hide something.
I hope you are not getting banned, because i wanna see you having fun with the game like i do… and push arena the right way. I just wish that all your recent pushes will get removed to not fool new players with unrealistic numbers. Giving feedback for the devs is the best way to improve the game, but you cant give proper feedback with manipulated chars…period.
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You will find the feedback in the post to be very genuine and worthy of discussion. If you think maces are well-designed, feel free to make your point. Let me know your thoughts about set designs. Should they remain being green, or should it be disjointed uniques that work well together? Should current set bonuses include defensive bonuses?
Just as you say, if they are cheating, the fun will end very soon. In the meantime, it seems unnecessary to create such a toxic atmosphere when the beginning and end of your evidence base is “your high scores are better than ours”. OP is justifiable in not wanting to answer to your inquisition, especially given your insistence & aggression in pushing this “discussion” in a completely unrelated constructive thread.
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I agree with you and apologize for starting this whole conversation.
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I’ll apologise too - in retrospect I probably came across a bit too hostile as well. I’m understanding of your skepticism about the scores, but I think these kinds of open hostility and vendettas can make this community a less welcoming and constructive place. I think we should all aspire to chill out a bit.
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This does seem a much more efficient use of existing systems than a new custom UI. On the other hand the custom UI might make the mechanic more transparent and feel more “important”/impactful. Really it would come down to how prominent EHG want stun to be, and accordingly the dev resources and UI space they could allocate to a hypothetical stun rework. I’m hoping it could be a major foundation of the gameplay experience for melee builds and for teamwork in multiplayer, hence imagining the pride of place with its own “hp bar”.
I’m not sure whether it’s better for this kind of accumulating stun to be fully deterministic or have some randomisation. Probably something that has to be observed in gameplay to be evaluated. The reason I suggested dropping the randomisation is that the current random stuns seem to end up being too unreliable to be “trustworthy” as a mechanic you can play around. Eg. if you have 75% chance to stun the Soul Vessel during its breath attack… you have to behave as if you wouldn’t have stunned it, since the alternative is a 25% chance to just die. But maybe with the right numbers tuning, the stun vulnerability approach could be reliable enough in practice to resolve this issue.
The builds I linked generally shouldn’t due to Firebrand being free & you’d use 3 lots of Firebrand then 1 Flame Reave for massive AoE & ignites.
I totally get where you’re coming from. I’m familiar with games that have CC bars and I find it to be a generally enjoyable combat feature. A deterministic approach offers more control over the damage dealt and is a more interactive feature. The suggestion I made was the simplest option I could come up with.
Based on my earlier model, “stun vulnerability” could also do a whole lot of nothing and specific skills could have features such as “if target has X stack of stun vulnerability, inflict stun and deal Y% more damage to stunned enemies”. Another option is to have the target stunned upon reaching a certain number of stacks which would mimic breaking the CC bar. This is very open to refinement or other suggestions.
@TriKster i dont know why you are apologising, you have every right to be skeptical.
EHG have brought this upon themselves in all honesty, by allowing rampant cheating to take place, and allowing cheaters to play the game in full knowledge of it.
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- I knew about the chance >100% not doing anything (I think it used to stack a few patches ago?) but for some reason I thought that the value of the buff would be doubled when dual wielding (10% instead of 5%) which is most likely not the case, so that one is on me.
Weird suggestions can lead to interesting results. 
I’m not sure if I would support the idea of removing the BiS item for all melee classes (which is debatable) to have it still be BiS but for fewer builds.
It would probably make the most sense that way, but maybe a different solution would be better.
I’d have to think about this more to really make up my mind because BiS items for certain builds are just something that will always exist, just like they way you set your passives and skillpoints is pretty much predetermined if you want to minmax.
Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but most of the time those exceptions are slight variants of the same build which, obviously, only differ slightly.
I have no problem with BiS items, just to make that clear.
However I feel that it might be a problem when unique items lose the thing that makes them unique (sometimes even build enabling) and they just become the BiS item numbers wise and offer nothing else besides those highest numbers.
You should get familiar with it if you can find the time.
Maybe even play one yourself.
This might help to understand why I’m hesitant about buffs that not only buff the weaker VK builds but also this build as the gap between them would not get smaller.
Lastly I want to address the arena “controversy” or ladder or whatever it is…
I personally don’t care if you cheated because I’m not a content creator and at this stage of the game I don’t give one single f*ck about leaderboards.
Do I think it would be a little scummy if you cheated?
- Of course!
Do I think it’s pretty suspicious that you don’t want to show your characters?
- Obviously!
Would it be even more suspicious if you wouldn’t come close to those numbers once characters are stored server side?
- Definitely. But of course theres always the “My char got nerfed” or “It’s too laggy now” or some other shitty excuse for those people afterwards.
Did you start boasting about those numbers in here?
- Nope! At least not in this thread and I didn’t stalk your other posts.
Does it mean that your feedback is invalid?
- Nope again! I can understand the concerns of some people but even then I don’t think that it automatically makes your feedback and suggestions invalid.
That’s pretty much how I feel about this topic personally.
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They don’t allow cheating to take place, there’s not much they can do given the save files are on our machines. The only way they could prevent cheating would be to remove the leaderboard.
And they can/do ban cheaters.
It did before dual wielding was released with the Rogue in 0.8.0.
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