General feedback

Hello, I’m Sylv. I’ve been playing LE for some time and I really like seeing the game grow. I’ve been meaning to make a general feedback post for some time. Though I’ve experimented around with all classes, all of my time is spent playing non-minion builds and most of it sentinel builds. This feedback will include general topics and sentinel-specific ones. (will edit many times for formatting).

Set Items

With the “recent” addition of legendary items in the game, set items have been overshadowed by the generally superior legendary items. Further analysis of set items shows that they seem to focus on offensive set bonuses almost exclusively. While cool offensive bonuses the Shattered Lance’s set (% melee cold damage based on your health regen) are honestly a lot of fun for the game, what about defensive set bonuses? At the time of writing, it is not clear to me the “space” that set items are meant to have in the game. However, simple bonuses such as +% health, %crit avoidance, generic +% resistances, etc seem decent enough to add to full set bonuses to be more seriously considered as a basic end-game option. I mean, if you’re going to wear 2-3 pieces of gear that would traditionally hold defensive affixes and replace them with gear that does not have similar affixes, you’re effectively reducing the defensive options of your build.

Take for instance, the “unofficial” Frostbite set which consist of Frostbite Shackles & Snowdrift. It gives you both an offensive venue to invest your affixes in (%freeze multipler as frostbite effectiveness) and a defensive venue (uncapped cold resistance as ward retention), which is cool and playable in end-game content. However, this “set” can have legendary affixes as well. Something to think about: which one is the future of set designs? green or red?

Soul Bastion

This dungeon has me worried for the future of dungeons. While Temporal Sanctum offered a coherent experience, en engaging mechanic and fantastic final reward, the same cannot be said of Soul Bastion.

Its final reward reward scales off the number of mobs defeated in the dungeon with it is designed randomly and has a lot of dead-ends: it’s basically a maze. Moreover, you are incentivized to clear the maze to obtain more of the final reward. Because of these elements, I haven’t had a lot of fun playing in Soul Bastion. If I could expend some charges to blow up the randomly-generated barricades, I would happily do so.

The final reward also does not strike me as particularly unique: there are no chase items incentivizing farming this dungeon, it is an exalted factory. As I understand it, you can obtain a t5 sealed affix, which is interesting, especially for + to skill levels. Is it enough for people to farm this regularly? I doubt it. What if you could get set items with a sealed affix?

Mace design

For most builds, attack speed/cast speed is basically the best offensive affix. Since some melee weapons benefit more to increases to attack speed according to their base attack rate, this naturally disqualifies a lot of the “slower” alternatives (mace, spear, staff) from a lot of builds, with sword/axe/dagger being the stronger options. However, I’ve recently been playing around a specific melee build that does not benefit from attack speed (for a change). You would think that this would open up the idea of playing with a mace. Unfortunately, it doesn’t.

Let’s analyze maces a little bit. They bring bonuses such as stun chance and stun duration (mostly irrelevant since the target is stun-locked if you attack fast enough), with the highest implicit stun chance bonus being 128% and 166% for one-handed and two-handed maces respectively. On the other hand, the “neutral” Lagon blessing can bring up to 160% extra stun chance while a t5 suffix on a one-handed weapon brings up to 140%: showing that the bonus is far from being “unique”. I cannot foresee a way that the “stun chance” implicit offsets the fact these weapons are significantly slower than axe/sword/dagger. They also offer no critical chance in either one-handed or two-handed versions, which make them inferior for just about every critical strike build, going against the concept of a hard-hitting blunt weapon, since they are weak.

In trying to make maces more relevant, one idea I came across is to have certain skills scale off of stun chance through a “more” multiplier (and perhaps adjusting the neutral stun chance numbers as well to make mace the superior option in benefiting from this node). Another is to include passives that scale inversely to your base attack rate (being generally between 0.9 and 1.2): an example could gives you a bonus based on the value [1.4-[base attack rate]]. A fast weapon would receive 0.2, while a slower one could get a factor of 0.5, more than double the bonus. Now the specific number is not exactly relevant to this suggestion, but rather the idea of scaling inversely to the base attack rate. A third suggestion is to have a node somewhere (passive tree or skill tree) that fixes the base attack rate of your weapons to a fixed value (for instance 1.1). Finally, melee critical chance would be much appreciated.

Two-handed Weapons

On a similar topic, we have recently discovered just how strong 100% block chance is through the neutral unique “Bastion of Honor”. Sentinel can get 60%+ damage reduction through block effectiveness namely through sentinel-specific idols. It is difficult to ignore just how powerful this damage reduction is in end-game content. While I have found a two-handed playstyle to be very enjoyable early game, it tends to drop off as content gets more difficult. Should there be a defensive layer available to two-handed weapons in order to be competitive with the shield playstyle? and if so, what would that layer of defense be? In their recent design of “Torkrefin’s Hunger”, they decided to go with a heavy bonus to health which is is an interesting alternative, though specific to this particular unique. I am not sure about the solution and if others see it as a problem. Considerations are generic DR, two-handed bonuses from melee skill trees or passive trees.

Game-defining uniques

Being very analytical by nature, I have observed just how powerful some uniques are in the game right now and I would like to share some that I find problematic.

  • Eye of Reen. While clearly designed for ignite builds, I have found that this weapon can scale % critical multiplier to extreme levels for melee builds (I also confess that every ignite builds I tried to create were terrible, a different topic). Skills such as Harvest or Warpath that can easily get you to 100% critical with a sword can obtain very high crit multiplier for this weapon. Add some attack speed, area of effect and even some stun chance and you have a perfect storm. A simple fix would be to limit the maximum number of stacks of Reen’s Ire.

  • Siphon of Anguish: The “Doom” ailment increasing melee damage taken is simply BiS for melee builds, leading to very little variety in rings. Doom is also very potent for DoT builds, especially those with high “more” modifiers though I am not sure the tooltip DPS accounts for the fact Doom has a maximum stack of 4. Either way, it seems that adding this unique in almost any build raises their DPS significantly. The downside is that it’s grindy to get a good legendary version with the affixes you want. I suggest reworking the Doom ailment completely. Suggestions include making armor shred more effective or making it a basic void dot ailment with unlimited stacks (and reduced damage numbers): basically something with more limited scope.

  • Bastion of Honor: As discussed previously introducing 100% block chance on a neutral shield has really changed the game especially for those pushing higher arena runs. My main concern with this shield is the complete absence of drawbacks. Anyone can play it and invest in neutral block effectiveness. Traditionally, if a sentinel wants to get to 100% block chance, he needs to get a legendary “Bulwark of the Last Abyss” with additional block chance, which constantly sacrifices your health while on high health (which is playable, though very annoying). If it were to limit your max resists, armor or dodge, I believe people might think twice. At the end of the day, the real question is whether or not we should even have a 100% block neutral shield. Should shields offers more block chance/effectiveness to begin with for sentinels to not be the absolute best at shield defenses, or should there be different layers of defense for other classes so that this neutral shield isn’t game-defining?

I could mention Prism Guard and Wings of Argentus for their insane DR as well, but I’ll end this section for now.

Sentinel-specific suggestions
  • Void Knight is extremely melee-oriented. Yet, plenty of gear affixes (void dot, void spell dmg), idol affixes (shield throw converted to void, void dot) and passive nodes (spell/throw void dmg) seem to indicate that a different playstyle exists. Can we consider the void knight passive bonus to add 75% increased void damage instead of melee void damage? Can we also consider adding throw speed/cast speed to the “Time Legion” passive node? Can we get a real void ailment that doesn’t have a maximum number of stacks (let’s not talk about future strike)? Finally, am I the only one who thinks volatile reversal is honestly way too strong for a 0-mana cost instant skill? They nerfed smite from 40% ias, but they leave out volatile like it’s completely fine? That skill is truly insane in how much it scales off your damage, costs no mana and is an instant cast obtained by anyone who puts 5 points in the Void Knight tree.

  • Given that Forguard is designed to be sentinel’s two-handed wielding class, perhaps adding a %DR to the passive node “Molded by the Forge” could be interesting as an extra defensive layer mentionned earlier to incentivize the two-handed playstyle. Adding effects for two-handed spears and staves would be very nice as well. On a different note, I genuinely feel like Forguard’s design need to be reviewed: on one hand you gain armor when hit, but on the other hand, you are the “minion” class generating shields, forged weapons or an animated armor set to tank hits for you. Keep in mind that sentinel already has an extremely comfortable access to way too much armor through the armor bonus from strength & flat bonus from sigil of hope. Their class abilities (forge strike & Smelter’s Wrath) also strike me as non-viable.

  • Given the last two comments, paladins ends up as the currently most flexible class with excellent access to utility (sigil, holy aura) and different playstyles (melee, throw, spells, dot)

Conclusion

Thank you for reading and I look forward for your comments!

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Hi Sylv i have a question for you. How did you reach wave 3535 and 2271 in 0.8.4? Thank you…

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This + Temporal Corruption + your suggestion on Time Legion would be bonkers for Throwing Smite Procs.
75% passive damage void smite on, assume the same numbers 30% increased throwing speed + Echo

whisper I think you know how.

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Hello Trikster, you will find elements of an answer to your question namely in the section “Game-defining uniques” of this post. I don’t plan on playing these builds on the ladder in 0.8.5

Thanks for your answer. Sadly i couldn’t find the answer to my question in this section. Could you share any gameplay material or upload your characters to the build planner so that i can see your gear? I’m a competitive player myself and would like to learn more about how i can improve myself.

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I agree that this change would be powerful: specific numbers can always be adjusted. My general suggestion is to be more coherent in the way the class is designed. If the class is meant to echo throw skill/void spells, why would this trend not continue at the end of the skill tree? Paladin has access to 32% throw speed through holy aura.

Unfortunately, I don’t plan of making build guides or anything of the such. While I appreciate your curiosity, I have directly guided you towards the uniques that can create such performing builds.

Why can’t you give them the benefit of the doubt?

It could be a valid run, but over 2,000 waves higher than the next highest character (not counting their second Paladin), especially when it’s a melee character, plus over 2,300 waves higher than the next highest Sentinel… If you ignore those characters, there’s a relatively smooth (kinda) progression between characters on the ladder.

But hey, I’m not an arena player…

Edit: If you see a data point that’s a clear statistical outlier, you think, is this new physics or have we ####ed up the experiment somewhere.

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The way they teach outliers (and most things tbh) in high school is plain wrong. Unless there is solid indisputable evidence that this is an outlier, we must regard it as an extreme value.

Also given how many people are being sceptical of their achievements, don’t you think people at EHG would have been sceptical and done an investigation themselves? If so, and they aren’t banned, maybe that suggests Sylv is legit.

That is entirely possible, but we don’t know what EHG did or did not do so we don’t know. If you’re happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, that’s fair enough.

Disregarding the assholes, I think you raise some good points. After the introduction of Temporal Sanctum, Set items don’t really offer anything that Legendaries can be crafted to do better.

Can’t really say much about Soul Bastion or Sentinel because I don’t interact with those, but I can understand how randomised mazes are a pain, considering the rest of the game isn’t like that. I think SB does offer interesting mechanics and like the idea of the Soul Gambler.

That said, I feel Siphon is alright? The power it provides is gated strongly behind a max of 4 stacks.

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Thank you for addressing my post! Siphon is quite alright, but it’s hard to consider any alternatives when you consider the 16% increased melee damage taken that it provides. Even a perfectly rolled exalted ring cannot compare to 1-2LP Siphon in general. Given that it also has “increased doom effect”, it feels very forced to run 2 of it.

I found myself debating playing 1 LP Ocearon for a lightning build vs Siphon and I unfortunately found that Siphon performed better. At the end of the day I don’t mind since getting a decent 2LP Siphon isn’t that hard, but I sure wish other rings would be viable alternatives.

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Your insight seems a bit shallow for a player who went from not appearing on the ladder pre-8.4 to populating ~10% of the top 100, holding the top position for multiple classes by a significant margin. I don’t mean that as an insult. I was just expecting more from a player capable of reaching 700 waves with a random assortment of skills on Spellblade.

I just have so many questions. How do you regen mana? What is the synergy between Lightning Blast, Flame Reave, and Static? I’ve never seen a build like it. You have found the secret sauce for so many classes and builds (harvest OP??) yet are unwilling to share any details. What a shame. Sets are underwhelming, Bastion is OP, Volatile Reversal does too much. Well shit, I could’ve left that feedback.

I don’t really care about leaderboards, cheating, or exploits. I only have a problem when players use that experience to suggest balance changes. If you’re going to propose Eye of Reen nerfs, I ask that you do more than list the mods of the item and a skill that can be used while equipped.

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The slow attack speed doesn’t matter for 2H weapon because they are usually run with cooldown based builds(that want maximum flat damage) or for spell builds with the staff.

The numbers can get insane with things such as Erasing strike(buffed by void cleave) or earthquake builds(EQ werebear was the most OP build until they nerfed it, now it is just solid)

Harvest can be set up to generate ward on hit - it can also be setup to proc poison on hit. There are lots of ways to increase the attack speed in that class too. Thus why it can push so high. The decay aura also helps.

Hi, you would know if you played ladder that there has always been a bug with skills shown on the leaderboard. I’m not quite sure how it works, but if you swap skills right after your arena run, it shows the skill you swapped to… sometimes. I’ve been aware of it since I started playing in 0.8.2. Long story short, the bar displayed does not make sense and you are correct. That was not the build I played: it was lightning blast/teleport/glacial cascade/static/flame ward. Basically the same setup I have on sorcerer on ladder atm: a frostbite build. I wanted to test out the difference between spellblade and sorcerer. The final result is that sorcerer’s 25% CD reduction node was for more valuable for both survivability and upkeep of Glacial Cascade’s insane’s 60% more cold multiplier and anti-projectile feature.

I was worried my arena record would be the only topic of discussion of the thread. Let’s just say barging in a topic I took 2-3 hours to script and demanding the recipe for some arena builds isn’t something I look kindly upon. You’re free to experiment the examples I have for Eye of Reen (ie Harvest with high crit chance, I recommend some points in the +10% base crit strike node and aura of decay healing to offset the drawback or warpath with +10% base crit for sword) and come to your own conclusions.

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Let me start by saying I have only read parts of your post in detail, so I’ll start with those first.

  1. Are you talking about a base EoR? Or a Legendary with %AS and +Fire DMG or something like that? I am guessing base version but just to make sure.
  2. Dual wield or single EoR?
  3. Do you feel that limiting the number of stacks could cause the item to still be usable by builds that already shine using this item while build that are “only playable” with it right now would then be unplayable, therefore limiting the use of the item to very specific builds?

While I agree that Doom could be changed (or even removed in my opinion) this would not only affect SoA but also Stymied Fate and Apathy’s Maw.

Making it able to get unlimited stacks would basically give us another bleed that’s pretty limited to get (only from those 3 items). Therefore I wouldn’t support changing it like that.

Sentinel also has enough ways to make armor shred more effective so yeah, wouldn’t support chaning it like that either.


Any Void Knight experts are welcome to correct me, but isn’t the most popular (and probably strongest) VK build the autobomber?

I actually feel like a lot of people complain that a melee VK is too weak!
It’s true that the VK passive tree is pretty melee focused, but that doesn’t mean that a melee VK is the best way to play as the popularity of the Autobomber has shown us.
And yes I do understand that the VK passive tree has very good caster nodes… that’s why I don’t think chaning things from melee to general void damage would make sense.
It would only make the Autobomber even stronger and have no benefit at all to melee VK.

The idea behind void DoT nodes was probably for Abyssal Echoes, Future Strike, that one node in the Erasing Strike tree iirc and that one Hammer Throw node that nobody uses. Doom was introduced later into the game and I probably forgot about another Void DoT skill or ailment or something like that.

I wouldn’t mind the throw speed increase, but the cast speed increase would again buff Autobomber (among other VK caster variants).

I have already shared my thoughts on the void ailment above so I won’t write the same thing again.


Nope, you’re not the only one.
It’s extremely strong.

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Hi, thank you for your post.

1- The base weapon though a legendary one with %ias only amplifies the problem.
2- The item database states that chance above 100% to gain Reen’s Ire has no effect. We would not benefit much from dual-wielding.
3- I’m genuinely unaware of builds using EoR (besides my own) and I’d be happy to hear if anyone made a successful ignite build. Even their recent “Ambition” idol has a limit of 20 stacks. It seems like an oversight not to cap the stacks.

You are right that my suggestion was weird. Removing it seems like a simpler solution. I simply wanted to put the idea out there that the VK tree could be reworked to include doom as a void dot ailment and then those rings could be BiS for those void dot builds instead of every melee builds.

I’m not very familiar with the autobomber build though I have seen videos and can understand the appeal. I had some success a while back with Rive and 4 crit multi idols, but these days are long gone.

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