I’ve collected all the information I could find about the upcoming crafting updates and placed them within this post. As more information becomes available I’ll be sure to add it here – at least until its own dedicated developer blog is released. If I’ve missed anything please let me know and I’ll be sure to include it.
I’ve also created similar threads for the following:
Here is what we were told about the upcoming crafting updates in the 0.8.4 & beyond dev blog :
Crafting in Last Epoch is one of our fan-favorite systems so when making updates to it, we want to be careful not to change what players like about it. However, we feel there are some issues with the current system. For example, the random factor and fracturing items can lead to “feel bad” and frustrating moments.
In 0.8.4, crafting will get some major changes. It will still be deterministic, and involve using shards to augment or add specific modifiers on the item, and we also still keep an element of randomization. However, that randomization will no longer come in the form of an item suddenly fracturing.
Since then Mike has answered various questions pertaining to the upcoming crafting updates during the dev streams. I’ve gathered all these below – transcribing them to the best of my ability, but I’ve also provided links (if the dev stream is accessible on their YouTube channel) or timestamps (if the video is still only accessible on Twitch) for all the content if you’d rather watch Mike answer them.
October 8, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
Q: Can you share anything on the upcoming crafting changes?
A: There’s not much I can share. It’s not done yet is the problem. So we like to reveal and share everything we can – give as much information as possible – because we know you guys love to give feedback and we love the feedback we get from you and having that as soon as possible is really valuable. However, we’re still not even through the internal play test phase of it to see if we want to make any major changes.
The big thing I would say about the crafting changes is that the main thing we’re trying to remove and alleviate from the system is the sudden, ah…your crafting is just done. There needs to be positive and negative possible outcomes for each crafting event attempt. So you go to craft and you want to add an affix to the item or you want to reroll a stat on the item – there needs to be a, and we plan on having, a positive and a negative outcome for that. Right now the positive outcome is success and the negative outcome is a fracture. The negative outcome is a little too harsh right now and the positive outcome is just what you expect to happen, in a lot of cases. There’s also critical success, so there’s a bit of extra positive outcome in those cases.
The main goal is to remove that relief or disappointment as the only emotional states that generally show up. So you either get relief that it did what you thought it should do or disappointment in that it didn’t do what you thought it should do. We want to make the state so when something bad happens – it’s still bad and you’re disappointed, but it’s not like, okay, the item is done forever no matter what on the first bad thing that happened [Mike laughs]. Like there’s still a chance something could come up that’s good.
We’ve seen a lot of suggestions from the community with a couple actually being so unbelievably close to what it is, right now at least, and a few times I’ve just wanted to be like, ‘yep, that’s it…you got it!’ [Mike laughs].
We’re not there yet. We’ve got it all designed – we’ve got new runes, we’ve got new glyphs, we’ve got revamps of old ones that won’t work anymore, like it’s all spec’d out…we’re just working on a few other things right now.YouTube Link
Q: Will Runes of Shattering ever become rare/semi-rare drops and removed from vendors and the amount of affix shards lowered? Right now they drop far too often and I have hundreds of thousands of them just sitting in my Forge. These would also make good trade items on 1.0.
A: The available and need for all types of crafting materials and the functionality of runes and glyphs are all going to get a big shake-up, so forget what you know about them [Mike laughs]. There might be a bit of a balance issue with more experienced players who have too many of some of these things – I don’t know. I don’t think so, actually. I think it’s going to be just fine.
Yeah, post patch, stuff will do different things [Mike laughs]. Shattering, I think, is one of the least affected by it. Shattering might be the one that’s not affected at all. Rune of Shaping, that one is also pretty much the same. It might be exactly the same, exactly. Well, technically it’s not exactly the same but it basically is.YouTube Link
October 15, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
Q: Why does 90% upgrade chance feel more like 90% chance to fracture?
A: I can tell you exactly why that is actually. Say you have a 90% chance to succeed and you do it – like it should be a guaranteed thing – you do it again, you do it again, you do it again, you do it again…you keep going. We’ve just done it, what was that, six or seven times at 90% and all of those feel like guaranteed things – right? And you’re like, okay, if I do ten at 90% the chances are I’ll fail one of them. True. Because fracture chance is a binary – did it happen or not – and by the time you get to five or six, or whatever it is, 90% rolls in a row you have about a 50% chance to fracture it (0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 53%).
So if you’re crafting an item and you’re able to, through doing lower affixes – like you do all the 1’s, all the 2’s, all the 3’s type thing – and say you’re also using glyphs to lower the fracture chance than you’re able to do six or seven 90% rolls in a row on one item. Chances are you’re going to fracture that item with only rolling 90%'s. I know that seems really dumb, but it’s the way the math works and it’s really unfortunate.
This is kind of the reason why the crafting system we have right now is a little bit unintuitive and can feel bad. We’re really taking a hard look at how that works and we’ve got a way that we hope will fix this – fix the feeling – but keep the difficulty…keep the agency, but fix the feeling. That’s really the thing we’re going after. We don’t want to remove the capabilities, we don’t want to make it easy mode – we just want to change the feeling. We think we’ve got a way that handles it really nicely. We’re still testing it, we’re still designing it, we’re still doing all these things for it.
It’s been in the works for quite a while now. We first propositioned this change probably a year ago, honestly. Probably more than a year ago actually. But yeah, that’s why 90% upgrade chance feels more like 90% chance to fracture – because it is…kind of [Mike laughs].YouTube Link
Q: Any new runes or glyphs coming next patch?
A: There should be. Ah, crap I don’t know the number…but there’s at least one of each new one coming though [Mike laughs]. It’s more than one, but I don’t know what the number is though. I don’t want to say it and be wrong. There’s definitely a couple.
There’s some that are revamped from old ones, there’s some that are just straight up new, there’s some that aren’t changed almost at all. I think everything --oh, I shouldn’t say that – Rune of Shattering is still the same and Rune of Shaping is technically different, but if anyone plays this back and they see what it is then they’ll be like, ‘yeah Mike, I guess you’re technically correct but no it doesn’t’ [Mike laughs].YouTube Link
Q: So you will not change the underlying mechanics, but just the displayed crafting chances?
A: No, there are some mechanical changes that are happening. We need to change more than just the display to change how it feels. We are changing the mechanics slightly. I would say the core functionality of like, here’s an item…I’m going to upgrade this affix, I’m going to add this affix – the core functionality of that is not changing. So it’s still going to be the same basic structure, but there are functional changes coming to the system as a whole. I know I’m being super vague and I know you’re trying to figure out what those changes are, but they’re not quite 100% set in stone yet which is why I can’t say, ‘well this is what’s coming’.
I know there’ll be at least one person that’ll be super happy because they pitched a near identical system on the forum once. It might have been Discord. I don’t know, but somewhere I’ve seen someone say basically the same thing and I was like, yeah that’s what we’re working on already.YouTube Link
Q: Any plans on adding an option to the loot filter to choose free prefix/suffix slots as a requirement?
A: I don’t think we have yet. I do really like that one though. However, it’ll be less desirable in the new crafting system – well, for too many free slots. Too many free slots will be a bad thing for items you find in the new system. Which I know is so out of context, really useless information…but yeah. One free slot will be really good in a lot of cases. Yeah, just the one.
Maybe, I know this gets requested a fair bit. The loot filter is a very important part of the game.YouTube Link
Q: Mike planned all the gear breaking so that he could sell the crafting update even better – galaxy brain!
A: Yep, there we go [Mike laughs]. That is exactly – like what I just did with crafting is exactly the type of thing that we want to change. Instead of it being like, ‘oh maybe I can get something but it’s just going to brick and make the item worse and suddenly there’s no point of even trying to do that last bit of crafting on it because you might make it worse’. That’s, that’s like – the risk/reward aspect of it is good, but when it actually breaks your item and it’s the item that you’re using…it sucks.
It means that you end up crafting on secondary items that you’re not actually using. So you have to have the set that you’re using and your crafting set until you can get one that can replace it after full successful crafts. It doesn’t feel as good because you can actually make your items worse by crafting. We’re trying to take all – and we can’t take all of them out – but we’re trying to take out as many of the bad feels moments of crafting as we can.YouTube Link
October 22, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
Q: Does the new crafting system deal with the little problem of having thousands of unused shards? It feels a little bad seeing the shards count always go up and never down.
A: There is a mechanic in the new system that will mean shards – shards will get used more frequently, just in general, across the board you’ll end up using more shards. We know that there’s quite often a heavy imbalance in which shards you’re using and which shards you’re accumulating. So you’re sitting there and you got one of this fantastic shard that you want and you got 400 of this other shard that you’re never going to use. We don’t have something specific for that situation yet. We are well aware it’s a problem.
There’s lots of simple solutions there. Things like – basic things like, okay you can trade 10:1 for any shard, you know. That might be a little too open because then any T20 item suddenly becomes two of any shard for you – if you were to take all the shards off that item. There’s issues with a lot of the different options that we have for dealing with this problem. It’s definitely not set in stone, it’s definitely not something that we’re perfectly happy with how it is yet. However, you will use more shards, in general, in the new crafting system.YouTube Link
Q: [Not a question, but Mike tries to improve all his current gear through crafting and receives either a minor or damaging fracture with all his attempts.]
A: See, this right here – this effect that’s happening right now is what we want to change in the new crafting system.YouTube Link
Q: [Not a question, but Mike tries crafting added Melee Void Damage on an Odachi and fails at 91%.]
A: That just gets thrown on the ground, it’s not even getting sold. That, what happened right there, that’s what we’re fixing with crafting. That is just like…right there! [Mike laughs]YouTube Link
October 29, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
Q: Will changes to crafting make Lonestar’s crafting experience worse or better? I know EHG has code in place that specifically affects his client, it’s obvious.
A: I mean – we were hoping you wouldn’t figure it out, but yes…we’ve taken out the anti-Lonestar code. We had to, it was incompatible with the new crafting system [Mike laughs].YouTube Link
Q: Can you provide a spoiler on any new rune or glyph that is coming?
A: Ah, one of them is going to be called the Glyph of Hope.YouTube Link
November 5, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
Q: Will there ever be a way to modify fractured items or reduce instability on items?
A: Ah…no. However, those terms might be a little outdated.YouTube Link
Q: Anything you can share on how the new crafting system won’t make us feel as bad about fracturing?
A: I think the major problem with fracturing right now is that it goes from – it’s a binary state, it happens very quickly. There’s like no slow decay to it, it all just happens all at once. There’s no chance for like redemption or like a cheeky little extra bonus to get out of it. It’s like all of a sudden you are just done. I think that’s the part that sucks the most about it – that it’s so abrupt. Yeah, I think that’s the worst part about it.
We do need – sorry, just to clarify here – we do need items to be able to have a mechanic where by they can’t be upgraded anymore, or at least working on them is very difficult. So like, for example, in Path of Exile when you have corrupted items there’s still mechanics by which you can work with them a little bit. It’s just way less than normal. It’s like edge cases and secret mechanics I want to say – they’re not secret, but they’re not immediately presented with the basic crafting options. I guess corruption isn’t an ultra basic crafting option to begin with, but anyways, my point is that having this just like chance based, suddenly it’s broken, can’t do anything to it…that’s the part that sucks.
The big difference is that in Path of Exile when you’re corrupting something you know you’re corrupting it. You’re like it’s not going to be useable to change afterwards, this is it, this is the end…you can see it coming. There’s not just like, ‘oh you got unlucky and it happened!’ Maybe there is and I’m just forgetting some mechanic, but my point is…is that getting that feeling of; you can see it coming a little bit, you can prepare for it a little bit. Having more information and control is, I think, going to be very useful.YouTube Link
November 12, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - YouTube
No questions relating to crafting updates were answered.
November 19, 2021 Developer Q&A Stream - Twitch
Q: Do you guys have any plans for alternative uses for shards? I wish I could spend 100 shards for a buff to X, or at least to put then in a vault to swim on, Scrooge McDuck style.
A: Yeah, that’s definitely something we’re looking at and we want to have shard sinks for certain things because we know that some people will only, for example, ever play one character and if you’re ever only playing a Bladedancer than “+ Spell Damage” is probably never going to be a useful shard for you to use. It’ll just sit there doing nothing and collecting dust. Having something to use them on is likely going to be good. If there’s an economy than selling them is a useful thing to do with them, but we know lots of people play single player as well so having a mechanic for them at the same time – which would give them for value in an economy system as well.
So yes, we are looking at things to do with them. What are we going to do with them? I don’t know yet. The new crafting system will likely have you using a lot more of them in general, but not for the ones you never use because you don’t need them.
[Continued] There will be ways that will incentivize spending shards that you don’t normally spend in the new crafting system as well.
Q: How big is the crafting rework?
A: The core functionality of being able to take shards and affix them to items – I shouldn’t say affix when they’re affixes…bad choice of words Mike [Mike laughs]. Being able to take an item and slap an affix on it and have that item now have that new affix while also being able to slap on upgrade onto to that – that’s not going anywhere. That’s the same, that’s the way it is. We’re really trying to target the feelings that get generated from the system and how those get evoked. So showing this number [Mike points to crafting percentage] – and I want to be clear that we’re not just removing this number – but showing this number is really terrible because no one understands what this number means [Mike laughs]. That’s a broad generalization…very few people know what this number means. I know that it’s very obvious at first glance what this number means, but in practice almost no one can really understand in their head what is happening with this number and repeatedly using this number.
So we’ve redesigned the system a bit to get away from just having this like…this number basically [Mike laughs]. I want to be clear – we’re not just leaving everything the same and turning the number off because that doesn’t fix the problem. If that was what we were doing, just turning that number off, – which is not what we’re doing…I keep saying it because we’re not just turning the number off – is that you’d end up with someone generating a tool to figure out the math behind what it is and creating a giant spreadsheet on a website that would be like, ‘if you have this number of affixes…like put the number of affixes in the item and I’ll generate the chance for you.’ It would just turn into a Google Sheet that got circulated, or it’d be built into Tunklabs or LastEpochTools or something like that – great website, don’t get me wrong. We want to avoid having those third party tools being necessary to do things.
We want that information you need to decide if you want to do this upgrade or not to still be in the system. We still want there to be an element of chance, a risk/reward system – all these core things we’re keeping in there. I’m really trying to describe how it’s changing without actually saying how it’s changing. It’s really hard. There’ll be a post about it.
I guess what I want to say is that the core goals of the crafting system are staying the same and the core functionality of the crafting system are staying the same, but the way that it happens and the feelings it evokes are changing. The Community Testers (CT’s) do have their hands on this now and overall I think the feedback has been very positive. They’ve had some great suggestions to shore up the system as well which is why we show it to a few people before we release it fully because we are not perfect. I’m really happy with it. I’m really confident with it. I think it’s going to be a very positive change. I think we’re going to get way, way, wayyy fewer posts that the crafting system is broken because we still do see those posts on the forums, Reddit, Discord, etc. Why does 90% feel like 10%? I bet there’s almost a dozen posts that have that exact same title, you know.
And like overhauling all the Runes and Glyphs as well because most of them don’t make sense anymore for the new system. We really want to add new mechanical options in these Runes and Glyphs. So not only are we overhauling the old ones, but we’re adding new ones as well. I don’t think the CT’s have all those either yet. The build they got was pretty limited [Mike laughs]. We’re still working on a lot of it. A lot of it comes together surprisingly late in the cycle [Mike laughs].
Reddit
Q: I totally agree. I feel that LE crafting is in a pretty good spot right now and I too feel that the risk of failure is a good thing. If getting perfect or close to perfect items becomes trivial then it really takes away a lot.
But all in all I’m not too worried as I’m sure EHG have already thought of this.
A: It’s a pretty big overall change and one thing that we are really being clear on is the chance to get a T20 item crafted from any given drop will, on average, stay very similar to how it is now.
Difficulty to get specific very high power items will remain almost unchanged. The big thing that’s going is the super feels bad moment that happens. For example, when you immediately fracture an item on 90%+ success chance on the first crafting attempt.Reddit Link
Q: Ok thats fair, but I feel like even having 90% show up is weird, like have the first couple crafts be 100% and then after that it drops down to like 70% because if it bricks on 70% i understand but if it bricks on 90% then that is frustrating and you say you want to change it so you cant brick on 90% so why even have 90% in the game. Just drop right to 70%-60% after the first 1 or 2 crafts.
A: That’s actually an option we considered heavily.Reddit Link
Q: How about a Devotion system where a small portion of your experience could be fed to an item to restore some of its Instability. This would be a very slow process and provide an end-game goal of eventually reaching Perfection on an item’s crafting.
People are already wondering what experience is for in end-game.
A: It’s funny, we were actually having a meeting today where we discussed post level 100 XP. Given the upcoming changes to the crafting system, what you’re suggesting probably wouldn’t mesh as well.Reddit Link
Q: Thank you for lifting a tip of the veil. I’m very curious to your solution. I love the balance of the current system, except when I found a T17 item that received a damaging fracture at T19 which made it drop back to T17.
A: Yea, losing progress is really bad feeling. We think this new system will keep all the good stuff about the old and strip out the bad. As always we will continue to test and look for community feedback to polish the system.Reddit Link
Crafting Updates Dev Blog
Crafting Changes
The core of the crafting system has existed in a similar state in Last Epoch for the last four years. In that time we’ve had a lot of positive feedback, but a lot of people have also voiced their frustrations with it. In 0.8.4 we want to carry forward the positives, while reworking the core of this system to be less frustrating, and adding more variety to how you can craft in Last Epoch.
Positives to carry forward
Directed Crafting: You can find shards on the ground for speci…
6 Likes
Tree
October 25, 2021, 10:36am
2
You know that feeling when you get a T5 class prefix in a bad base helmet, relic, or chest, so you use your Rune of Shattering to get some shards for it so you can use it on your good implicits and instead get something useless like +1 Cold Resistance shard?
That has me feeling worse than the 90% fractures. I hope that is something which is also addressed, because class shards are far, far rarer, and it’d be nice to be able to stockpile those for when we want to maximize our character’s performance.
Post was updated with very minor information from the latest dev stream.
Though, we did get some great spoilers for 0.8.4. Here are two images showing off updates to previous zones:
And lastly, a short clip of the Werebear Form up close and personal:
And there’s more leaks Dungeons & Legendary Items threads.
3 Likes
Rekill
November 15, 2021, 11:01am
4
not sure about this crafting system. i failed 90% succes rate crafts like 6 times in a row. and thats not a rare occurrence… its hard to find a upgrade and when i do the crafting system leaves a bad taste in my mouth 90% of the time.
Llama8
November 15, 2021, 11:26am
5
You’re likely not remembering the successes anywhere near as much as the failures, you had a ~47% chance to fail those 90% success rate crafts 6 times in a row. You’ll have had way more successes in a row at that % chance but you don’t remember them/they aren’t “emotionally impactful” because you’re expecting the 90% chance to be guaranteed. And that’s why the devs are making some changes to the “feels bad” moments in crafting. What they’re going to be we don’t know.
Though I suspect if you had a better grasp of the probability the crafting would probably feel less bad. And maybe a better loot filter setup to help you find potential upgrades.
Rekill
November 15, 2021, 2:54pm
6
system
January 14, 2022, 2:54pm
7
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