At leve 86 you arent’ really leveling anymore but instead farming for Blessings, Gear and pushing corruption. So after you do that then you usually will be around 100 by default.
As for the experience thing I don’t find it really that slow but I’m also not paying attention to it. If you are pushing corruption too 200+ the exp goes up a decent bit. So do that for a few timelines while target farming gear with a decent clear speed and shouldn’t be too hard.
I have a 98, 94, just got a lock too 88 and a few lowbies. I think the end game lvling is kinda fast if you are doing what is intended in the regards to farming and pushing up corruption some. By time you have near BiS blessing should be that 100.
This IS my style of game.
Being unable to reach 100 in a timely manner is not a distinguishable feature of an ARPG. It’s just time waste. Getting to 100 in poe is way quicker.
You might not need all the points, I do.
Personally. I feel like the XP grind is fine as it is. You don’t REALLY need to reach level 100. If you actually WANT to get to level 100, you can get there eventually since there are no XP penalties.
Currently, it’s much easier to reach level 100 on PoE than it used to be, but that’s only because of power creep. Every character these days has multiple layers of defense easily without even BiS gear. So it’s much harder to die. Just a few years ago, there were much MUCH fewer characters at level 100.
Even now, the vast majority of players won’t reach level 100 in PoE. Because that’s not their goal for a finished character. It’s just a goal some people have to reach max number. Which is fine. Just not something the majority of players want or care about.
Much like it wasn’t something the vast majority of players wanted in D2. Mostly just leaderboard racers aimed for level 99.
Personally, I don’t want a D3 system. It makes max level completely irrelevant and not an achievement. If I want to reach level 100 and grind for it, it should feel like an accomplishment, rather than just something every character will easily reach with minimal effort.
Spending extra time on doing an easy chore is not an accomplishment.
Do you have some super powers I’m unaware of? You need to disclose things like this in order for us to have a proper conversation.
That’s exactly what I’m doing. But you need to do other islands to reach those tomes.
I got 4h a day to spend on this game, and not an h more in workdays.
With such a tight schedule you should take my word for it when I tell you leveling is prolonged here compared to poe which I played religiously before this game released.
By now I’d have had 2 lvl 100’s.
You’re all downplaying the significance of those 5 extra points, which could easily translate to over 100 armor, with gear bonuses more. Over 50% increased damage. Or extra defensive layers, or straight up increased chance to proc which will undoubtedly change your entire build, and propel it forward.
You’re of the opinion you don’t need all 100 levels, I am of the opinion you do. Because using the same logic you are using, then 80 would be considered the max level, since that’s the level you finish the campaign on. Or 75.
5 points can be the difference between perma crit hits vs hit and misses. Depending on the build these difference can either be HUGE or negligible.
Thinking you don’t need level 100 is also outside of this topic discussion. Stop justifying bad design.
Calling for extremes because of a lack of a solid argument is disingenuous.
I’m suggesting they tweak it just a bit to accommodate the playerbase. It’s not just for me. I open my schedule to play the game, it has nothing to do with IT not being tailored around my schedule.
Come up with something valid instead these type of petty remarks.
Also.
Why do we have to go through 2 zones before reaching the boss in each island? Both utter time-waste.
Why does the “stability” drop after killing the boss making you repeat the process? And why doesn’t this exist in the 100s level?
Because the entire point of normal monoliths is to get to know some more story. It’s like a hybrid of campaign & actual endgame loop. Would you rather have campaign 'till 80+ ?
The quest skip in empowered monos is relatively new, and tbh less useful with the shorter mod duration now than back in the days of +238% void enemy dmg for 6 echoes.
How many times do I need to complete the same 2 zones to learn the story?
Once.
I can’t believe you even posted this.
Anyway, I’m done with the game for now. I just spent the entire day target farming Dragorath’s Claw, and I only encountered 5 unique or set swords or dagger echo.
Most of my gameplay today was running through long corridors ignoring mobs just to get to the next island, with 0 reward for my time spent. If its this hard to get a normal unique, then god forbid I go for the 2 LP, or 3 LP version of it.
I’ll check the game again in couple of months, oh right, maybe further down the road then.
Take care peeps, keep your head in the sand.
The unique sword node shows up more the higher your corruption goes, if you’re doing normals, than it’s expected to rarely see them.
If you’re capapble of doing Empowered Monoliths, you should be doing those.
I have found several Dragoraths on my Warlock, about half of them with 1LP (as CoF) so it shouldn’t be too hard to farm if the rest of your build is even halfway decent.
But if that is what makes you leave the game, I guess good luck have fun, and maybe next time, check out the Merchant’s Guild.
I agree that the late game leveling is far too slow. The general hook of an ARPG is the steady gain in power. You’re either gaining levels, points, gear or a combination of these.
By level 85-90 here you’ve definitely gotten all of your skill points, and the frequency of build changing gear expectedly declines as your characte/build matures.
The steady thing that’s left for the drip feed of feeling progression is your level (and associated passive points). And … it’s way too slow. I was fortunate enough to have a free Saturday yesterday that I just spent playing LE for almost all of my waking hours. Most of this time was farming exp monos in 200+ corruption. I leveled from 96 to 97. That’s it; one level, one passive point for an entire day of play. Sure, I got some interesting gear pieces for other character ideas I have, but the sense of any progression on the character I was playing was not there. I don’t persoanlly find spending another 25+ hours for only 3 levels interesting level progression.
The exp tomes need to be worth far more for a character’s level in late game than they currently are, or there at least needs to be a way to better focus on exp monos instead of the current system where I’ll go through 4-5 mono islands I’m not currently farming, get a tiny amount of exp from mobs, then finally get an exp mono done to get about 3% (maybe). Then spend another 30 plus minutes navigating to another exp mono depending on the random nature of mono islands. If leveling XP is to be this slow in late in game then targeting level gain near the end should be as robust in options as it is to target farm a certain type of gear.
I don’t think faster leveling will help with the end game stall. Once I realized the “level 100” monos were perfectly doable at level 86 or 87 when I headed in, I stopped watching my XP bar at all. It’s not as if anything in the game is level gated. I do the XP echoes, but for CoF points, not for character level. A level is a nice surprise.
Into the 90s we’re only getting a handful of passive points. They’re nice to have but it’s really all in the loot. With blessings and target farming sill being grindy AF, we’d just get to the progression wall that much faster.
Your whole argumentation line is very well made, kudos to you there.
But yeah, you’re right, the problem for one person isn’t for all and the other way around.
In this case we have a pre-defined situation of a 3 month cycle, retention rates for those are between 2-4 weeks for a large portion of the playerbase, so taking that into consideration is something important.
So, someone playing a lot will have between 2-4 characters and someone taking it leisurely because of little time will have as single fully finished or several ones which are fairly decent at the end of the life-time of those cycles.
That sounds like a decent concept, you’re not supposed to go through all 15 masteries at one time, after all you should come back next time and enjoy yourself in new ways.
So in this case I’ll say the leveling pace is actually quite good and well fit for the situation.
You aren’t, if you lack the ability to derive enjoyment from the journey towards becoming strong and solely do so from playing the most powerful thing available then the whole premise of the game is already something problematic for you. It’s all about the journey and never about the end-result after all.
Enjoy the mechanics, don’t care about other people outpacing you and as long as the balancing is at least half-way decent to not influence the economy too badly then it’s of no meaning. Even more so if you’re not taking part in the economy or the ladder itself, then it’s a non-issue by design.
Be deriving which active choices were made by the devs, hence their product positioning and then from that standpoint starting the argumentation.
There’s 2 viable routes available solely to make one.
The first is a business perspective, which is about getting the most people playing the longest.
The second is from the direct goal the devs have set themselves, which is the artistic perspective, what did the devs want to create?
Those clash inherently to a degree, if their ‘vision’ is compromised then no matter how many people will like it… it’s not viable. If it doesn’t majorly clash with it though it’s a viable point to argument from a business perspective.
Have you? I haven’t.
Please provide us the respective information in that case please since I’m sincerely interested, it’s important information I lack and hence my argumentation won’t be as complete as it should be.
Until then I can’t say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to your claim there, I don’t know and have to go from my own perspective rather then facts.
Without the experience node multiplication from CoF Rank level 100 provides you Rank 8, not 9.
It’s ‘a goal’. Also time-based goals are goals which some enjoy to do.
There’s a good chunk of people out there which are fairly bad at playing games but have time… let them have a few things for them as well, wouldya? This is one of those things.
If you got a decent skill level you’ll beat the content vastly before reaching 100 anyway.
It’s specifically designed to have you invest more time then necessary. Which is not even only fine but a necessity you’ll find in nearly every game in one way or another, very very few exceptions which just excel in sheer content amount to not warrant having it anymore.
Not the case in LE… yet.
Yes, exactly! You got the point.
Since the content isn’t there some other measure of engagement needs to exist, one of them is the ‘pushing numbers’ urge for people, hence despite high time investment - in comparison at least - reaching level 100.
So it does work perfect I would say, in that regard.
Plus bring their personal vision and goal into existence.
Otherwise they would’ve made a decently functional micro-transaction riddled mobile game, they earn more then games like LE by a massive amount in comparison to the effort put into.
It’s worked really well since the existence of MMOs of most kinds. Why would that change now?
When I don’t care about that at all, instead have fun along the way… well… why would I give a single shit how much time I invested into something? The goal was met, had fun. Deal done.
That’s very very delusional, from a mathematical standpoint you’re wrong.
If you think this is true without fact checking the exact time needed then it’s your fault solely.
First of all, a monolith takes 2-3 minutes at most with a decent build. PoE maps when decently juiced take ~5-10 minutes as you always full clear if possible.
LE provides between around 3% per experience reward and around 0,5% per fairly swiftly made monolith, much more for a full clear.
That means you’ll need around 100-150 monoliths for 99-100
With 150 monoliths you get hence around 450 minutes of play time if you rush it, or 7 1/2 hours of play-time, a day investment.
In PoE it’s ~1% per map, which means around 100 maps, hence minimum 500 minutes, hence 8 hours 20 minutes.
Not even taking into consideration that a death removes 10%, the downtime needed to roll maps, the downtime difference between monoliths and maps for stashing items. LE outpaces PoE vastly.
It is, it’s called ‘effort invested’ into it.
So yes, it’s an accomplishment on its own.
Nah, nobody ‘needs’ to take your word for it, especially since you’re factually wrong given the different circumstances of the game.
Especially so since you should be used to the premise that level 100 is not something reasonably reached in PoE either, the vast majority of people stop between 90-95.
Already done. LE is like PoE a game for long-term ARPG players which have time to invest into it.
If you’re not falling 100% into that category you’ll still have loads of fun… like with PoE.
You can’t expect the end-result to be the same as those investing a lot more time into it though, and it’s set up that way.
Umh… yes… which is why you can ignore them in empowered monoliths entirely? So what’s your point?
Your argument has already been realized.
I’m going to combine the following two quotes because they relate:
To address the time it takes to clear a monolith. 2-3 minutes might be for a well function meta build that I might like or not like. My build is nowhere near that clear speed, because I’m playing the thing I want to play. This is why I said I shouldn’t be forced to play meta to accommodate the games design in order for me to reach 100 quicker.
You level up by killing NPC’s not just completing the monolith objective. A full clear takes a lot longer, and even longer for me.
Wasn’t this game supposed to be a game where you don’t need to follow a guide? “We want something where players can just play and not worry about builds. It’s very hard to make a build not work.”
I can’t get my dps higher than 50k without leveling up more, and investing more points than a meta counterpart build into the passive tree. How do you get levels? By killing things. How do you kill things efficiently if you aren’t following a meta? You don’t.
Leveling in poe is way quicker. I managed to hit 100 with plenty of characters with no effort, you just need not die. poe is also a different game, there you need a functioning build with good clear speed, and I did hit that clear speed, however this game was advertised differently.
It does work, doesn’t make it right by the player base.
If you consider it an achievement, that’s your thing.
Doesn’t make it right. This also relates to several other mentions of how much time we spend in this game.
Time spent having fun, is not time wasted. Time spent grinding in frustration because your build doesn’t meet the standards for content that’s significantly harder but drops better stuff, is a waste.
I went by what people say in general chat. I’m not privy to any statistics, but mention it in game, and most people will tell you to go MG. Is this enough? I suppose not. Take it as you want, discard it if you want.
Those investing more time should have better gear. It’s an item chase game. Nobody is denying this. You spend more time, you should have accumulated more rewards.
We’re talking about the levels, and the viability of “normal” builds without those 10ish passive points that we NEED desperately.
This was a reply to another post who suggested we go through the same stuff to learn the story, and I shouldn’t complain.
First of all, I can’t do empowered bosses yet. I’m forced, by my build, which I did choose to play with, because I have fun with it ( not denying it ).
Just because you can skip something after gearing up your character playing MG, doesn’t mean the other lower level zone is justified to keep you repeating the same 2 zones.
Didn’t they also change this recently? Though I’m not sure what the change was. I stopped playing, and will be going to poe in several hours when the new season comes out.
My entire rant was limited to CoF, and how we can’t push our normal builds within reasonable time frame. Had I played MG, I would’ve been far ahead with a build that melts bosses. Just… I’m not about to crawl my way there for a full month doing repetitive stuff way more than I personally think I should.
I’ve taken that from my shoddy version of a wraithlord build that’s neither fully leaning into ward (yet) or has decent life or damage currently. Mediocre build overall since I switched it up and it’s half finished.
So without movement speed as affix on boots and just the mandatory movement skill I usually take between 2-3 minutes for a monolith, which is going in, seeing the goal… running right towards the goal while only stopping to not die or when a ton of rare mobs are there to get extra loot.
So yes, basically every build has that speed available because that character is darn slow.
Unlike my detonate arrow melee build which boosts itself to really high speeds and does most monoliths in under 2 minutes… hence clearly quite strong for speed clear. Rarely I can also get sub 1 minute if the goal isn’t too far away.
The experience is also very clear-cut, normal and ‘magic’ mobs give basically nothing in terms of xp, rares are worth a whole pack easily. Completion also provides a miniscule amount… it all is far below going for the xp rewards though, those are ridiciulous, up to 5% at level 99 is massive.
And it all can be done with a barely functioning build where because of targeting issues you barely ever manage to buff your main minion and hence do low damage (that’s a skill issue with me hitting that darn thing properly).
In comparison PoE doesn’t even offer that complexity, you just run, empty the map and get loot from it, there’s no decision making behind it, it’s always done this way as you otherwise have troubles sustaining. In LE you actively choose which monoliths to rush and which ones to clear.
So provide a functioning alternative which has been proven to function long-term and provides similar engagement.
If you’re falling in the frustration then it’s already over, take a breather, stop playing, why force onward?
Because as you mentioned, it’s supposed to be fun, if it’s not fun → stop.
Especially and specifically in a game genre - diablo clones - which is focused around grinding… if said grinding goes too far then it’s just not fitting for you, which is absolutely fine. But there’s a ton of people enjoying just that, powering through and the dopamine rush from achieving the outcome.
Much like the item chase the level grind is also a part of it. And unlike the item chase which is purely RNG based the level grind is purely deterministic. You’ll reach it if you just focus on the items… as a side effect.
If you can’t to baseline 100 corruption bosses then something else then the levels is at fault, either you’ve chosen a very wonky build (unlikely but there’s 1-2 existing), your gear is a mess (most likely) or you’re lacking personal skill.
If you provide a link to the build I can go over it and maybe help out with 1-2 points that makes your experience more enjoyable… but not reaching empowered monoliths at all is nigh unthinkable in this game. After 30 hours of gameplay you’re basically guaranteed to be at 200+ corruption with any build.
I’m a consumer, it’s not my job to provide anything but feedback of the current state of the game. As for your first quote, that’s your experience, not mine.
I did stop playing, I’m not forcing anything. It’s not fun, I stopped.
It shouldn’t be. The items should be your defining features of your build, not 10 levels which you need to make mediocre builds viable. I won’t reach it when I need the items to play the content that drops those items (if not the levels). Don’t you see the closed loop here?
Had I had the levels, I could’ve pushed and farmed the content needed to get my items to push my build further, but I don’t. It took way too long to get to 96 that I just gave up. The build is obviously not up to par, but the reason for that is the lack of items for my build. I found 0 items with level to mana strike. 0. All the hours put in the game, not 1 affix with that, or an item that I can shatter.
Basically what i said above. Here’s the build.
I stopped playing this build, I made a sentinel, with a shield throw, and I matched the dps at lvl 76. If you can’t make a build around a skill provided to you by the game, then there’s something wrong, unfinished, or not much thought had been put behind the skills themselves.
@DJSamhein The fact that there is no exp penalty on death makes hitting 100 a pretty minimal effort since you’ll get to 100 eventually if you are doing the usual endgame stuff (Target Farming, Corruption Pushing.).
In POE the only way I was able to make it to level 100 was to build for it in both my character and my atlas strategy.
For fun, I imagine a month where EHG would install an exp penalty so people who haven’t played D2/POE can get a taste lol!
