Why would it slow it down? People that are buying gold via RMT aren’t people that are rank 1 in MG. Those can’t buy anything with their gold.
So it makes no difference if you use gold and you cap is 1.5B and they sell you 1.5B or if you use <currency> and the cap is 1k and they sell you 1k of it.
The biggest problem with MG is a cap being reached in the first place. As long as there’s one, you will always have things being sold at cap. And most likely not the most valuable ones. Those simply aren’t listed as not being worth it.
If you look at the PoE economy, you never reach a cap. You can’t get 1B chaos. You can’t get 1B divines. So every item is being sold according to their overall rarity with everything else.
But if you reach a cap in a currency, then you only sell items up to that cap. Items that are now more valuable than the cap will simply not be sold.
LE needs to create an MG currency that is farmed at lower values and has no real way to reach cap, even with trades. Because reaching cap is one of the biggest issues MG has.
If you set up your filter to include those with a highlight you’ll realize how often they actually occur. It’s not rare to find them in end-game.
During the progression stage they showcase a limitation… but for end-game players they aren’t… and that’s great for the game to exist gameplay wise… but for a market it would be a disaster.
There’s a reason why chaos orbs and divine orbs in PoE are the going currencies. Chaos orbs are needed non-stop, between 3-6 every single map are needed for farming strats of most kinds because of the map device ability to put a specific mechanic into it with that cost. That gives it inherent value.
The inherent value of divine orbs comes from the meta-crafting options. Hence things like ‘suffixes/prefixes cannot be changed’ or ‘cannot roll attack/caster modifiers’. Since those are mandatory for the creation of top-end items people which try to achieve those use them in the hundreds, sometimes thousands.
There simply is nothing equivalent existing in Last Epoch to uphold value. All consumables in LE have no big-scale existing sink currently. So they wouldn’t work in a market situation.
Exactly, and that’s why the current itemization system is in trouble. That includes the drop-system, the crafting-system and the auxiliary systems like LP re-roll, Legendary crafting and weaver crafting options.
The biggest issue there is how the core crafting-mechanic is handled, which is set up in a way to be a second ‘roulette roll’ basically. That causes the whole system to topple down over time.
That is true, but it’s only a viable way if the slowdown is big enough to ensure it doesn’t happen in yeras of playing. The current issue is months in a Cycle… for a legacy player with loads of time this means it’s magnitudes higher commonly as the top-end can produce comparatively massive amounts of valuable items non-stop. Causes the extra slowdown to be gone swiftly and still run into issues.
A slowdown method needs to hold up for at least 5 years of a top-tier Legacy player at the minimum. We’re not even at 1 month currently… that’s how bad the situation is.
Because in those 5 years? The developer needs to create new avenues to either remove the value so reaching the limit isn’t possible… or add in alternative storage methods to allow acrueing more value simply. For example a ‘platinum coin’ which is worth 1 million Gold but has the same technical cap as Gold has in the system. So you can exchange them simply for storage measures. A well used system in several games.
Yep, they are at least Rank 3.
Which to be very clear here… is piss-easy to achieve. Rank 3 is uniques, Uberroth stuff is expensive and for many hard to acquire, hence people will use it for RMT. The logical conclusion.
Easy to access in the market + valuable = RMT option.
It’s not. But there are literal hundreds of them. Last season I started highlighting them and using removal/shatters to get them to above 50 of each. After more than 100h, not a single one was above 50. And the ones outside my class were mostly under 10 still.
RMT and all these issues already existed in Season 0 and there was no Aby gating items.
People who RMT will mostly be searching for LP uniques, legendaries (like great rolls of the WW class relics). They want the items that are on their build guide. And the build guide doesn’t have 0LP uniques. Not even the ones that have red rings or omnis in them.
And this includes exalted gear as well.
So no, it’s not rank 3. You need at least rank 8 for the exalted gear.
And how many do you need?
You need 1 to add it to an item to move it to T7, that’s it. Or you find a exalted with it on T6 or T7. Below that it’s a single T5 item set up until you get a upgrade.
It’s still not viable as a currency… I don’t have 50 sacred orbs in PoE either… and despite being extremely rare they have basically no value to represent that either.
No use… no value.
Red ring… nuff said.
Core RMT item in 1.0.
And yes, you make my point with the other ones as well, LP items.
Legendaries are a very miniscule amount of RMT items as you need a high rank, so access for someone is hard to achieve. The harder access is achieved the less RMT related to it.
I haven’t spent much time thinking about this, but I have to agree the the lack of gold sinks does present an issue with inflation. POE and Torchlight Infinite use crafting currency for trading/AH and I think it works pretty well.
TL:I also has fees for using the AH which also take more of that currency out of the economy. And so you simply don’t get the kind of inflation in those games because of the sinks of those useful crafting mats.
And so, with inflation casual or new players need to get lucky and find a valuable item to sell.
Yes, and to make things worse, sometimes ultra-rare loot drops or items crafted to their maximum potential early in the game. After that, no matter how much time the player spends, he can’t find anything better, which can lead to a drop in engagement during the second half. That’s why I believe the best gear, along with the best crafting potential, should only be sold by merchants and bought with gold. It’s much easier for developers to control gold rewards in each area than to rely on random loot drops, and it makes progression feel more balanced.
But I’m strongly against lazy design where the player ends up with tons of gold and nothing useful to buy. If developers decide that balanced progression requires gear worth 100k gold, then exactly 100k should be available through drops - no more, no less.
As I said, the average RMTer doesn’t RMT for a single item. They’re people with high disposable income that look at a build guide and say to themselves “I want all this right now”.
In PoE, they buy the items directly (or even a full build).
In LE they can’t buy the items because item RMT isn’t really a thing here, being too fluid and annoying to achieve, mostly because of the lack of direct trade, so they buy gold so they can buy all the items in the build. They don’t want just a red ring. They want 2 red rings, preferably with LP. If possible, already slammed. They want a 1LP omnis. They want a 4LP Titan Heart or whichever chest they use.
If they use the class relics, then they want either a legendary version with already the affixes they want or otherwise a few dozen high WW ones.
RMTers are lazy people that don’t want to actually play the game. So they’re not going to be buying a single red ring. They’ll be buying all the items in a build.
There are a few exceptions to this, but those are the players the RMT market thrives upon.
Which is the version of their ‘whales’ which you describe.
That’s not the norm.
RMT - like microtransactions - have a significant amount of ‘one payment’ individuals. Those which are frustrated by a single acquisition of some kind which they can’t seem to get or is simply too far ahead to be bothered with, hence skipping the whole time investment to reach it instead.
That means the significant amount of people doing RMT are doing it 1-2 times commonly.
But the important ones are those you describe.
It just shifts the issue, absolutely. Put extremely overpriced random item on trade, have the RMT selling char buy it, exchange happened… the re-selling does reduce a significant amount of fluidity and other exploitative methods from the market but it does nothing for RMT. As long as something is available which someone wants and there’s the option to get the resources in a non-acceptable way people will use it, always was the case, is the case and likely will stay to be the case for a very very long time. Prevalence is the important aspect here.
Absolutely! Some are. But the part that individuals do sidestep parts is also a thing. Which means that fluid progression is extremely important in design as it sidesteps a lot of the reasoning to engage in RMT.
That is part of it. Which could be fixed. The biggest reason was P2P trade was removed is RMT bots where using it. It was the main way RMT was happening
Edit also if i remember correctly the exploit with P2P trading was fixed. And RMT is what lead to it being removed
That is not the main reason P2P trade got removed…see a above
Also it was said somewhere either stream or discord or reddit. By devs saying if they can mitigate RMT with P2P trading they will bring it back
Edit… in discord as the devs. A dev said this.
I personally removed the code for player to player trading. It is completely gone both in the client and server.
Because there is only so little currency arround. Make the cap rise with levels if nessecary so all the currency you woul’d buy via rmt would dissapear.
Sure and if ppl buy stuff that isn’t worth the money it’s on the people.
currency without a cap is just increasing the spiral.
You can’t repair legacy anyway so who cares? If they don’t hard reset legacy, what would be a bad idea, it will be broken and stay broken.
It’s not about stuff not being worth the money. If lots of people can reach the currency cap, then prices get higher and eventually the top tier of items stops getting sold because the tier below is already being sold at cap.
PoE would like to disagree.
Only because MG is flawed in LE. In PoE, despite years and years of an ongoing economy, it’s still stable. Because players don’t have a chance to reach cap and because the currency is spendable. So an equilibrium is always reached.
Which is a clear showcase of a lack of understanding.
It’s not that a reset is needed, absolutely not, quite the contrary.
It’s that only of Legacy functions long-term with a market that the mechanics accordingly are upheld in general.
Any mechanical combination which causes Legacy to break is inherently a non-functional one anyway, one which dismantles itself over time. Exactly what the issue of the current MG is.
Legacy is a showcase of the health of the system. And we can clearly see ‘how healthy’ it is
Nope, only if no sink is available and the timeframe is respectively long.
Even with no sink available it at least provides leeway of action because there is more time before it breaks.
But we don’t even have that, which is a major issue.
Look at the RMT side of it and how prices spiral there. If you are into RMT you can buy a whole chars worth of equipment to run the game down for about 10 bucks. If there is no currency to work with and people overprice their items they lose currency because nothing gets sold. If you have to work with a fixed income reality changes a lot.
I can’t purchase anything in legacy because stuff is expensive. Then again starting legacy in PoE is like starting ssf for me.
Yeah but it was doomed from the beginning and nothing was done about it. The question is if this is the systems fault or if the execution is at fault here,
That’s why a dedicated currency would be better. Gold is rather meaningless outside of buying bank space because alsmost everything else what you can do with gold is kind of a joke.
And where do you think this Gold comes from? It needs to have a root cause for popping into existende.
There’s 2 options for that:
Either the state of the game is vastly worse then expected and it’s overrun with botters. Which would mean all those excessive methods to reduce RMT have failed through the bank and the game is actually half-dead in reality.
Or the resources are in a vast amount already existing anyway, hence only sold to the RMT site by a portion of individuals while the botting is solely supporting it to a smaller degree. Which is the currently more lenient situation as the first would mean ‘bye bye game’ long-term anyway as EHG would’ve entirely failed to stop botting and hence we’ll see the common death-spiral happening.
So the ongoing situation is that it’s either already existing and created… or we can lay down any need to argue anyway since it’ll be useless and we’re already dancing on top of the corpse of EHG.
That’s the darn point!!!
It’s the showcase of the equilibrium in LE not existing.
And why is starting in Standard of PoE like SSF for you? You make currency like nothing else there and stuff below a specific power is cheap as heck. Seems more like a ‘you’ problem then an actual one.
The answer to your question is actually: Yes.
Systems because they don’t support it properly.
Execution because of how EHG did handle things.
It’s both.
Lightless Arbour would be good… but MG actively causes that to be non-functional for anyone playing this faction. It’s impossible for that mechanic to compete after all.
So yeah, dedicated currency would not only be better, it’s mandatory to support not double-dipping and to keep the other mechanics in a healthier more balanced state.
As it was said above there are big holes in EHGs systems people can exploit right now or could in the past. So it looks like a corps dancing party then.
I have nothing there. I belive I once looked into it, saw my bank and was like… “NAH!”. So it would be a fresh start for me and all I could go for is what I earn starting over. I rather do this in seasons.
It’s a gamble and most of the time you only get crap not even worth the meaningless gold you spent on it. LA would be good if it was good. Then again I would never go through the hassle of doing the dungeon just to get crap. I would never go through the dungeon to get a 100% good drop. LA is just equaly bad as other dungeons what still makes me sad because I’m kind of a dungeon dweller ^^.
Too complex for who, you ?. Don’t talk for others, most arpg players been barter/trading for over 2 decades now in many different arpgs since d2, and without any guides, discords and a youtube, we’ve somehow managed to do that intuitively back in the day, yet you think people right now are somehow more stupid to the point of not understanding how to do it ?. Come on, people and especially younger generations right now are more experienced and better versed in games and trading, i know for a fact barter trade would work way better than this gold based circus with bugs and bots.
Both previous seasons died within just couple of days due to bugs, exloits and bots farming billions of gold, you really think this is a great system ?.
Yes, they are not more experienced lol. They are more experienced at games in general,
so I have Exalted hybrid health t7, whats its value? t6 lightning blast? or what.
The reason poe works with “barter” is because the “items” you barter with are just gold given value. Chaos orbs are just gold.
Gold isnt great, but unless we copy PoE, with orbs, full barter and trade isnt possible. there is way too many items/affixes you will need to find the exact right buyer/seller to get any trade done. meta items would only ever trade for other meta items.
Barter is always possible, but it sucks so much compared to using a nice fluid currency or currencies (like PoE).
@Coil why do you think we invented money/currencies ~11,000-2,000 years ago if bartering was so awesome? Bartering is simple but it sucks for you if I dont want what you have for trade when you want what I have, or we can’t agree on a common price.
Gold sucks, yes, a lot of people agree with that, but it’s still better than bartering. And the season didn’t die. MG might have been fucked but that’s it,
