Gold isn’t a mistake, not properly handle MG is a mistake,
3 League = 3 dupes that ruin the economy in day 3.
They said that is fixed until then next video on bilibili where ppl explain how to dupe in LE.
At this point i lost hope in LE that this will fix sometime soon and i only play trade.
How so??? Care to explain why it isnt. Its been explained to the moon and back in a number of different threads as to why it is a mistake.
Just saying gold isn’t a mistake without an explanation as to why. Doesnt counter anything being said as to why it is a mistake.
I also have something to say, but good ideas have already been proposed. I will support the idea of an alternative currency. As I think, if these were runes and glyphs, the market would be more stable. But here we can dig deeper and what if there is a certain item as the center of the whole system. Most likely this is Rune of Havoc, since it is rarer and really valuable. And if we take something from the equipment? Then the clear winner will be Shattered Worlds. But wait, the item has LP, which means that the more LP, the more confusion can arise. The appearance of 2LP Shattered Worlds on the market will lead to a decrease in other items and the economy will already be based on 2LP Shattered Worlds. Not right, it should not be like this.
Unfortunately, then this idea does not suit us either. The game also does not have an item that can be crafted so that it can be the center of the market. No, of course it exists, but only for mages and its class limitations cannot allow it to be a center for the market. Oh, if only LE had something like Astromentis…
Therefore, runes and glyphs can serve as a good alternative for the market.
Affixes can also act as a currency, especially for skills. If all affixes stop dropping from monsters and can only be obtained by destroying items (or in rare cases by killing bosses), then their value will increase. And if each subsequent improvement requires an amount equal to the improvement, and for skills twice as much, then their price will be very high.
Example:
Regular affixes: T1 - 1 affix. T2 - 2 affixes, etc.
For skills: T1 - 2 affixes, T2 - 4 affixes, etc.
Give the ability to spend gold to merchants. If they start dropping normal things, and maybe even with t6 or t7 affixes, then people will happily play this roulette.
And comrades, let’s not forget that we demand from developers what in other games took years to achieve. And here people play for a year or two and demand perfection. Now the developers have money)) and I hope they will hire people who understand the economy and can make changes, even if not good at first, but the best for the future.
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Ah yes, that was a disaster a few years ago.
Got massively better though, nowadays it’s very clear-cut and they allow a boatload of player-agency.
Both are, and the second point includes the first. It’s been explained to death repeatedly why. I recommend pulling up one of those threads.
In short:
Magnitude of buying power versus technical numerical limit of Gold.
Double-dipping issues.
Impossible balancing between factions because of it.
Invalidating the sink mechanic for Gold entirely because it can’t compete and won’t ever be able to compete without utterly breaking it by increasing drop-rate by a magnitude of ~20+ I imagine. (Which means 20 times the reward for the same investment to be at least viable to use)
Yes, absolutely awful.
But a functioning market recovers from that.
MG is not functioning, never was.
Even without a dupe you’ll see this situation occuring Month 2 of the Cycle roughly, or at least showing distinct signs of it happening.
Now imagine Legacy…
Yes, which was the initial talks from EHG… to allow the trading of crafting materials. Instead we got the current mechanics.
Which is baffling to go against core economic rules… which are ‘limitation and resource sinks’ in this case.
You can list endless items and flood the market, hence limitation is not upheld.
And you got no resource sink for the currency.
Their rarity is too low to have any impact sadly.
If you wanna get a specific affix you’ll get it in no time as soon as you reach end-game, to a degree where you won’t ever need it again after a few hours of play-time.
Yes, because the people before them already worked it out, hence we expect them to at least be able to copy the stuff they do in a reasonable way.
Study your mechanics properly! That’s a core aspect of being a successful developer which doesn’t solely has to hope for sheer pure luck to happen.
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Except for rare affixes. Those take longer, especially all the class specific ones.
I would change the market system a bit.
Every guild rank you get 100 currency. Every auction you put up costs 1 currency. Everything you want to buy costs X currency. You can only carry X ammount of currency per rank. Ranks rise higher then now. You need to make levels to get more currency and you need to sell stuff to get currency but you are unable to make stupid prices. Yeah every 4LP omegadropp would cost currency cap but then again that’s how rare those items are.
Something along those lines. Lucky me I’m no dev and don’t have to work out the fine print ^^.
Interesting concept though!
No one knows what kind of loot a specific player considers valuable. Relying solely on random drops to distribute good gear turns the game into a roulette. I believe gold is a much better way to motivate players to explore. It gives them the freedom to choose exactly what they want to buy from the store as a reward for a run where they earned gold.
Of course, stores should offer all types of gear - including overpowered ones - but at a very, very steep price, so players see it, salivate, and rush into another run.
Doesn’t that mean that it’s possible to run out of currency and be unable to trade ever again (since there’s no way to generate currency other than levels/ranks)?
You could even get unlucky and run out of them and never buy anything, if you place however many items for sale and they never get bought?
And how would that work with alts? Is this tied to each character? Because the ranks are global for your account.
Does that mean that this is a finite resource (which, being taxed, means it will run out eventually with no one having currency left)?
Or does making a new character give you more currency from levels (this would force people to create multiple alts just to get more currency from levels. People that like to play a single character and focus on it would be disadvantaged)?
I don’t think this would actually fix anything, though. Exploits would still be possible (they’re impossible to avoid) and the market would still crash when they do.
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i m going to go on to actually just agree with OP.
gold SHOULD NOT be the main trading currency. but instead should be used to facilitate any ingame service.
from what i gathered from playing POE settlers and POE2, gold has a place in game. NPCs use gold. make gold a “tax” for everything. want to craft? you need an npc to help you craft + your crafting materials.
want to trade? you ALSO need gold. the gold is used by the NPCs to facilitate the trade. it works well in POE back in settlers. but the only caveat is only currency was allowed to be traded this way.
undecember uses a different tax system but via P2W trade currency. free players can get this currency by selling items as the buyer will be taxed a small amount while the rest is transferred to the seller.
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To be fair, exploits do get fixed until more get found.
Yeah, it’s likely to get to monos without a lot of skill affixes.
It does kinda sound that way.
That’s why there needs to be a currency celing but the option to have more ranks. For example you do all the ranks to allowed to sell all kinds of stuff like it is right now but you can get a +1. So if you are stupid and spent all your currency you can grind for X hours to get 100 currency again.
If you do bad trading then that’s on you. I’m unlucky and still don’t play market but I don’t blame CoF because I have bad luck.
Currency can be global as well I see no issue there. If you buy an item with your main and put it into the storage to use it on an alt or if anything is shared and you buy with your alt is just removing one step in the process. Gold is account wide as well so nothing will change there at the end of the day.
It’s a finite ressource if you missspend it like gold is as well. If you waste your gold you need to farm gold again. If you waste your market currency you need to regrind a rank. This would turn the system arround and there would be meaningfull prices. If I know for example a new season starts and people could mostly pay 100 (if they are silly) there is a kind of price celing because people need to watch what they buy and how expensive they sell. Because if they mess up in one way or the other they need to grind to the next rank. Grinding should be a slow backround process because making currency from buying and selling should be the main focus here.
No the levels are account wide and the “Help I messed up I need to make xyz XP to gain a shadow level for more currency” would be on a fixed limit for all toons. So farming lvl 10 zones won’t net a penny.
I don’t see how they would be in a disatvantage.
How is this exploitable? You get 100 currency each level, when thereare 10 levels this makes 1000 currency you can work with while getting 100 more every now and then from a +1 that is bound to XP income. If your maximum amount of currency you can have on you is 1000 you need to either spend currency or you make backround levels for nothing. I don’t see any way to epxloit this because you can’t RMT the currency because it’s bound to the market process. Sure there might be some ways to sell items in the AH and someone buys them to transfer currency to you but such problems are there in almost all systems as soon as trading is a thing.
I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed and smarter people will come up with something better but this is one very low tech approach to do from my point of view without changing the system in place a lot or making gold useless.
So ranks are infinite? Or do you lose them if you spend the currency? I’m not sure I understand this part of your suggestion.
So meta builds, being more effective and getting more XP on average than everyone else, will have more currency overall to trade with?
The exploits that crashed the market so far have simply been variants of creating more currency. You did a direct trade with someone for more than you had and you would go to negative gold while the other person would get all the gold. This would have happened with this system as well, simply trading for cap.
Another exploit was direct trade (once again, it’s why they disabled it) where you used cheat engine to change the values being traded so you got gold cap in return. This would also happen with this system.
In both cases, whether it’s gold or this currency, players would reach cap instantly. They would then spend the currency and cap it again.
This doesn’t really change anything in this regard.
There is no change in regards to this. Currently they use bots to farm gold and then buy a crappy item from you for 1 billion so you don’t have to farm yourself. With this system they would farm currency ranks with bots and then buy a crappy item from you for 1200 currency (which I assume is the cap) so you don’t have to grind ranks.
Nothing really changed other than the cap values.
You need to make xyz XP to gain a pseudo rank that offers you 100 currency while the ammount of XP needed scales higher. On paper you are whatever Market guild rank but in the backround you can get income through making XP. Aka you get benefits for playing the game.
Meta builds will be better because they are meta builds like in every other aspect of the game. If LE is unable to balance their game then good builds will be better then bad builds.
LoL yeah so the devs messed up. Just don’t allow ppl to spend more gold then they have and that’s it. If you trade in this system for gold cap you can’t have more because the gold cap is capped. If you followed the example above you know you could only carry 1000 currency tops no matter what.
That’s why they disabled it. Then again having the power to change game numerics with CE in a server based game is just incompetence.
Sure if there are systems with more holes in it then is swiss cheese there is no need to change anything.
Yeah beeing able to buy stuff overpriced from the market is an issue. It’s up to LE to monitor this and freeze accounts to take a look at what happens. If someone sells a white or blue item for cap then something is fishy and needs to be adressed.
All in all the main issue seems to be EHG and neither gold but the system in place.
All games have exploits and dupes. Even PoE has them to this day. They just don’t have much of an impact because they fix it quickly and their economy is more resilient.
Also because they tend to not have a bunch of players advertising the exploits to panic the market, which is the biggest issue when these things happen.
Sure. But what if they sell a crappy exalted item instead? Or a unique?
Both EHG and GGG monitor trades. And I’m sure they catch a lot of these transactions. Although an RMTer can simply buy 10 crappy items at 100M each (or 100 currency). Or 50 at 20M each. How will you keep track of all of that?
RMTers will always be one step ahead. You can never get rid of it. And whether you use gold or a specific MG currency, RMT will still exist. That will never change as long as you can trade one thing for another.
Yeah but it slows things down if you increase the currency you can hold by rank and cap it at a certain number. There will always be ways to exploit systems but so far it looks like LE has more exploits then systems. I know why I stay away from the market in LE ^^.
Why would it slow it down? People that are buying gold via RMT aren’t people that are rank 1 in MG. Those can’t buy anything with their gold.
So it makes no difference if you use gold and you cap is 1.5B and they sell you 1.5B or if you use <currency> and the cap is 1k and they sell you 1k of it.
The biggest problem with MG is a cap being reached in the first place. As long as there’s one, you will always have things being sold at cap. And most likely not the most valuable ones. Those simply aren’t listed as not being worth it.
If you look at the PoE economy, you never reach a cap. You can’t get 1B chaos. You can’t get 1B divines. So every item is being sold according to their overall rarity with everything else.
But if you reach a cap in a currency, then you only sell items up to that cap. Items that are now more valuable than the cap will simply not be sold.
LE needs to create an MG currency that is farmed at lower values and has no real way to reach cap, even with trades. Because reaching cap is one of the biggest issues MG has.
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If you set up your filter to include those with a highlight you’ll realize how often they actually occur. It’s not rare to find them in end-game.
During the progression stage they showcase a limitation… but for end-game players they aren’t… and that’s great for the game to exist gameplay wise… but for a market it would be a disaster.
There’s a reason why chaos orbs and divine orbs in PoE are the going currencies. Chaos orbs are needed non-stop, between 3-6 every single map are needed for farming strats of most kinds because of the map device ability to put a specific mechanic into it with that cost. That gives it inherent value.
The inherent value of divine orbs comes from the meta-crafting options. Hence things like ‘suffixes/prefixes cannot be changed’ or ‘cannot roll attack/caster modifiers’. Since those are mandatory for the creation of top-end items people which try to achieve those use them in the hundreds, sometimes thousands.
There simply is nothing equivalent existing in Last Epoch to uphold value. All consumables in LE have no big-scale existing sink currently. So they wouldn’t work in a market situation.
Exactly, and that’s why the current itemization system is in trouble. That includes the drop-system, the crafting-system and the auxiliary systems like LP re-roll, Legendary crafting and weaver crafting options.
The biggest issue there is how the core crafting-mechanic is handled, which is set up in a way to be a second ‘roulette roll’ basically. That causes the whole system to topple down over time.
That is true, but it’s only a viable way if the slowdown is big enough to ensure it doesn’t happen in yeras of playing. The current issue is months in a Cycle… for a legacy player with loads of time this means it’s magnitudes higher commonly as the top-end can produce comparatively massive amounts of valuable items non-stop. Causes the extra slowdown to be gone swiftly and still run into issues.
A slowdown method needs to hold up for at least 5 years of a top-tier Legacy player at the minimum. We’re not even at 1 month currently… that’s how bad the situation is.
Because in those 5 years? The developer needs to create new avenues to either remove the value so reaching the limit isn’t possible… or add in alternative storage methods to allow acrueing more value simply. For example a ‘platinum coin’ which is worth 1 million Gold but has the same technical cap as Gold has in the system. So you can exchange them simply for storage measures. A well used system in several games.
Yep, they are at least Rank 3.
Which to be very clear here… is piss-easy to achieve. Rank 3 is uniques, Uberroth stuff is expensive and for many hard to acquire, hence people will use it for RMT. The logical conclusion.
Easy to access in the market + valuable = RMT option.
It’s not. But there are literal hundreds of them. Last season I started highlighting them and using removal/shatters to get them to above 50 of each. After more than 100h, not a single one was above 50. And the ones outside my class were mostly under 10 still.
RMT and all these issues already existed in Season 0 and there was no Aby gating items.
People who RMT will mostly be searching for LP uniques, legendaries (like great rolls of the WW class relics). They want the items that are on their build guide. And the build guide doesn’t have 0LP uniques. Not even the ones that have red rings or omnis in them.
And this includes exalted gear as well.
So no, it’s not rank 3. You need at least rank 8 for the exalted gear.
And how many do you need? 
You need 1 to add it to an item to move it to T7, that’s it. Or you find a exalted with it on T6 or T7. Below that it’s a single T5 item set up until you get a upgrade.
It’s still not viable as a currency… I don’t have 50 sacred orbs in PoE either… and despite being extremely rare they have basically no value to represent that either.
No use… no value.
Red ring… nuff said.
Core RMT item in 1.0.
And yes, you make my point with the other ones as well, LP items.
Legendaries are a very miniscule amount of RMT items as you need a high rank, so access for someone is hard to achieve. The harder access is achieved the less RMT related to it.