Once you know it the fight, it is both boring and lethal at the same time. In fact, it’s tedium is the thing that kills me most. Probably, mentally, there is also the, “I’m not even killing this smug bastard, just ‘entertaining’ him”, lurking in the back of my head.
I fucking hate this fight more than any other. I hate the way it breaths.
The fact that some of you are bragging about not being killed by this fight for years, should be a problem. Shouldn’t you want a boss to be engaging? It also implies to me, rightly or wrongly, that you enjoy tedium. Or you enjoy inflicting tedium upon others. Or both.
On top of all of that, this is the fight EHG chooses to introduce players to harder boss content? This is the filter!?
Yes, I did just die to him again on a runemaster with far more ward than good sense, why do you ask? And it wasn’t the eye beam, it was the moon blast and me not being able to see it do to my nova spam/impatience/lack of good judgement. So, anyone not including the moon blast in the list of one-shots is full of shit. Or the impatience. That’s a killer.
Out fio interest, was that as a result of reading guides etc. or just blind luck (if yo usee what I mean)?
Prior to Lagon, there is no real need for res o rhuge life pools. The game just doesnt need it- or for me at least, but I did take a ranged class. I think we all kno wwhats needed once we’ve been there, but - and I stress this again- in the campaign, its an absolute blocker for many people, who give up and quit.
For a game ot surviver it needs ne wplayers, or at least retain th eplayer base, and the more that quit and give bad reviews exactly because of it, the less money comes in, and th elower the game life.
Well, considering that Lagon is part of the tutorial campaign, players who have been through it a few times don’t really need tutoring anymore. Anyway, it’s a couple of minutes and isn’t any more tedious than the void puppet or any other act boss.
Good question. Prior to that paladin I had played Beastmaster and Sorceror and I had a rough time with both of those classes because I was focused too much on DPS and not enough on survivability. I then read the in-game tooltips and online guides to learn what all of the defensive stats meant and how all of the defensive mechanics worked, then made the paladin with a focus on survivability rather than DPS to effectively tank and one-shot Lagon.
My point was that it is entirely possible to fully tank Lagon in a normally-progressed build. I am in full agreement with you that game should do a better job of guiding players toward survivability stats before Lagon. Up to Lagon players can choose just about any stats and progression they want and still advance, but Lagon imposes definite constraints on builds and gear.
So because some of us learned how to fight he boss and know the mechanics well enough not to die to it constantly, we are a problem and the boss suddenly isn’t engaging? There’s a lot going on in the fight, lots of dodging to do. It’s engaging. Not dying to a boss doesn’t mean it isn’t engaging.
It doesn’t matter if you max Lightning and cold resist with 2k+ ward vs lagon, he’ll still demolish you with his beams, he’s insane. when I was playing with my friends I told him he was the first real filter of the game, the first REAL buildcheck. Anyways he’s a rough fight compared to everything before him, but he’s not too bad once you learn his hokey pokey.
I utterly cannot relate to this. I’ve never once played a game and thought “this would be more fun if I died more often.” I do like it to be possible, but it should be very rare.
Also, I never feel joy when defeating a problematic boss. It’s always more like “thank God that’s over.”
I can relate to the OP on this one. I encountered Lagon at around level 48. It’s a HUGE spike in difficulty compared to what came before.
Another issue with this fight is the tiny area they confine you in. It’s too much going on in such a small space.
You’re playing the wrong games then. Generally, the more difficult something is, the more accomplishment one should feel when completing or finishing that something. If that isn’t you, ARPGs aren’t really the games for you. Last Epoch isn’t the only game in it’s genre that has bosses you are meant to die to a bunch while learning. Every ARPG has them, older, newer included.
I don’t say it to shame you, just realistically, if that isn’t the sort of thing you are looking for, you’re not going to enjoy the genre very much. And if you are a veteran ARPG player, D4 or PoE or other and this bothers you here, does it not bother you in the other games?
Only boss in monolith which is somewhat hard is herot and fire spirits. All the others have mechanics you can just walk around or just kite. The real annoying one is shade of orobos.
Herot, fire spirits, and shade all have unavoidable damage similar to fom [for shade just depends on rng of combinations]
Lagon has only 1 way to kill you in phase 1-2 by getting stunned and beinf unable to walk out of moonbeam in time. In phase 3, his waves, well rip. But think op talking about campaign lagon, which is mostly a meme
By the time it took you to write this pointless essay you could have practiced fighting lagon over 10 times. The simple answer is that you can avoid all damage from Lagon VERY easily. Changing the phases around won’t make you any more competent. The easiest boss in game hands down.
I’m a veteran gamer, in that I’ve been video gaming for decades.
I do hate it other games too. I could count on my hands the amount of good boss fights I’ve seen in video games.
I will forever rail against design that is “you must fail repeatedly to learn.” I don’t just dislike that, I think it’s silly. Every bit of information you need to defeat a boss should be available to you in the game prior to encountering it.
I will not repeatedly try to defeat a boss who’s crushing me. I’ll make 2 attempts, 3 max, then go look up a strategy. A few more deaths using the strategy, and I’ll look for a way to cheese/cheat the boss. If those don’t work, I’ll move on and come back when I’m overlevelled / overgeared.
If the game roadblocks me such that even that last strategy didn’t work, I’ll bail on the game.
I read about people failing 20+ times against a boss and I think they’re all masochists. There’s no way I’m doing that, even if it’s the final boss of the campaign.
As for it not being the genre for me, you’re wrong. Even if I can’t beat the last boss or two, I will have a lot of fun creating various alts and trying different builds. I’m usually ready to bail on a character once they reach the level cap anyway. In Grim Dawn, I have 30 characters who have completed the game on the first difficulty, and one who did it on the last.
I’m old, my twitch skills aren’t what they used to be, and I simply don’t want to work that hard in any game. I don’t find that fun.
I would hate to go into a new boss fight knowing everything about it. Part of the fun is learning it as you go. It’s exciting learning it as it unfolds. What game gives you a book on what a boss does before you meet it? I know that I had no idea what Ganon was gonna do in Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. I didn’t expect to fight a Puppetted Zelda first and that was exciting.
Lagon isn’t afraid to show you he’s about to hit you. He puts his claw in the air and holds it for a solid second or two before he slams it down. He rears his giant head back really far before eye-beaming you. There’s a giant, bright circle on the ground before the moon-beam hits. The waves are fairly slow and are big, obviously textured cylinders that roll towards you, not hiding from you. Nothing about the fight is difficult to understand as it happens if you’ve been playing video games for a long time and know the usual things to look out for.
You can have a lot of fun and the genre still not necessarily be for you. These sorts of boss fights are not uncommon in ARPGs. You can brute force your way through it and then continue on like it didn’t happen, sure. And most of the game’s content does not revolve around fighting Lagon over and over again, but the end game crafting system sure does (Julra for Legendary Potential) and it’s end game grind (Shade of Orobys to increase corruption). You could ignore these and have a fun time grinding out base corruption Empowered Monoliths, but you won’t be engaging with the game’s more relevant end game mechanics if the boss fights aren’t something you enjoy.
I expect also that when 1.1 comes around and they bring us new pinnacle bosses, that we won’t be given a book on how to fight them before we walk into the fights (and we shouldn’t). I’m very confident those bosses will be a surprise and you’ll learn the mechanics as you walk into them, like you do in most video games. If you don’t like how bosses and their mechanics are treated as “learn as you go,” then no, I don’t think the genre necessarily is for you, even if you can have fun while ignoring those things.
Edit: Also, you being older and not wanting to work quite so hard at a boss fight isn’t the game failing, nor is it the game’s fault. I don’t blame you for not wanting to try that hard at it, you want a more casual experience, and there’s nothing wrong with that but it isn’t the game we have nor the one a lot of people want.
Dying to learn sucks. Dying as the only way to learn sucks more. That might not be the most popular opinion, but I’m not the only one who thinks so. You do not get to dictate what the “correct” way to play a game is.
IMO, every boss in every game should be, theoretically, beatable on the first attempt. Otherwise, endgame hardcore characters would not exist. So therefore, no, dying is not a requirement to learn.
I don’t care if you think these games are not for me. I’m having a ton of fun in LE, and I’ll continue to play it the way I enjoy while it is. While I don’t enjoy most of the boss fights, I do quite enjoy the rest of the game. Most of the bosses are dead without me taking any damage, so there’s only a handful of annoyances.
You don’t need to die to learn in this game. I just described to you the big obvous signs that Lagon was gonna hit you. If you had to die to see those, that’s really not the game’s fault.
I also am not in any way dictating what the right way to play is. That’s never been a topic here. I had noted you could have fun without loving the boss fights, which you’ve agreed to by stating that’s what you are doing. See below.
I’m not entirely sure where your position is moving to right now.
He says, after admitting he completely changed which class he was playing because he had problems with the fight on two other classes.
If you were right none of us would be here talking about it.
Maybe you haven’t (I haven’t kept track of names), but if you think that hasn’t been a topic in this thread then either you’ve missed a few replies or aren’t seeing the ways people have implied exactly that.
