You think it will. Their design philosophy for the trade system clearly shows that they don’t want to impact gameplay with trade.
No it doesn’t.
You seem to use Chris from PoE as an excuse, yet you have not read the article I linked a few messages above. Let me highligh one paragraph:
Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can’t be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can’t use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.
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That more loot + trade = faster loot acquisition isn’t really a disputable point. Nor is the fact that were they to make dropsrates lower for the sake of lowering the rate at which traders acquire gear, it would also reduce the rate at which SSF unless they did something about that.
I mean, they can decide HOW they want to deal with that problem, but it exists nonetheless.
We’re just talking about how they might/should go about that.
Right now the very concern being discussed in this thread is how the devs seem to be approaching this based on their past comments. That doesn’t mean they won’t change things, but we’re talking about how we know things stand right now. The info we have is:
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Similar to PoE, they want to make a trading system (for some reason) but they don’t want people to actually use it that much. The proposed solution seems to again track with what PoE did in just creating artificial frustration for the people who dare interact with the system they put in their own game and could have chosen not to make if they didn’t want people using it.
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That they haven’t entirely ruled out reducing overall droprates, including for SSF, in order to balance trading means THEY MIGHT DO THE THING YOU’RE SAYING THEY WOULDN’T DO! That’s the whole argument! If they had emphatically said “No, we will never change the SSF experience in order to work with trading.” We wouldn’t be having this discussion. We would very much like for them to not do that so that trading DOESN’T affect us like you are so stubbornly insisting it doesn’t despite all evidence and arguments to the contrary by just saying “Like, that’s just your opinion… man…”
See the 2nd post in the thread. The Devs of this game want drop rates based on SSF, but might adjust a little based on trading. Again, that’s not “Nope, no adjustment at all”, that’s “a little adjustment.” Which is a non-0 amount. Which is bad for SSF because of trading.
I already proposed a system which does lower drop rates only for traders and not at all for SSF. I’m sure people can somehow think of other ways to achieve that.
Right now, the Bazaar is not going to be a place anyone can find key gear for builds, so I don’t foresee it getting used for that purpose. It will be far more likely to evolve into a “newbie twinking” mechanism, where good rolled low-level gear gets sold so that you can fill an odd requirement as you level. i.e. You’re perfectly fine with a random item so long as it has X + Y on it. So the Bazaar will fill that niche.
But it isn’t Trading ™.
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to poke my head in and let everyone know that we are actively reading every post in this thread. As always we take feedback from our community very seriously and will continue to do so.
I think that the opening paragraph of our multiplayer FAQ might not be quite clear enough. The information is what our current plans are but they are by no means set in stone. We have already been in heavy discussions about many parts of the multiplayer FAQ based on early feedback from the community.
I like to think that we are an adaptive group and when something doesn’t work, we pivot. Some of you have been with us for a couple years and have seen several systems vanish or be heavily reworked based on player feedback. Sometimes it’s a little hard to see a system you worked hard to develop get scrapped but I know from first hand experience (old passive grid) that it makes for a better game if you can let go of things that aren’t working. Even if this gets released in the form we have outlined, it will still not be immutable.
This is not a call to slow down the feedback at all. If anything, it’s a request to keep it flowing. Good, bad, something else, we want to hear it all.
Thanks everyone!
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How about we all just chill out a little, myself included.
The devs have given us a fantastic starting platform of a game. They seem to have their heads screwed on and be in touch with what the players want. So why don’t we just wait and see what THEY decide to implement and then see whether or not it’s to the majority’s liking?
It’s all well & good giving feedback, but this thread seems to me to have gone completely out of control. After all, it’s 10 gazillion comments all based on a few paragraphs of a broad concept that no one has even seen yet. As far as I’m concerned now I’m happy to wait & see what appears. I have no doubts that the devs will listen to any feedback once we’ve all actually seen what is proposed,
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Let me repeat myself. LE doesn’t need any trading apart from trading within your guild or exchange items dropped while playing together. Sometimes ‘more’ doesn’t mean ‘better’
Yes it does.
See how useful that type of answer is? Fortunately for me, there were several good replies above that make the point, especially one with a quote from someone who has a lot more experience than either of us.
You are and that’s awesome. I, and others, are concerned about the level of friction the current system introduces on paper but we aren’t going to know until we get to use it in a fully fleshed out form which will also require a sufficiently large number of participants in the trade system.
What if the shops selected were based on having at least 1 item that would be visible based on your loot filter? That way it’s up to the player to use the loot filter as an expression of what they want to get and you’d know that each shop would have at least 1 item you may be interested in.
So the RMTers put together a Super Trade Guild that all players join and are happily able to carry on their nefarious deeds while everyone else in the guild do the hideous “LTB: xxxxxx” messages in chat to buy their desired end-game items that harks back to PoE and presumably D2.
Thanks for the note, Mike. I don’t know what sort of ideas you can take from us and use (I think anything we post becomes EHG intellectual property, pretty sure) so please, any ideas we’ve posted that you think will work, have a go at it.
For me, thinking outside the box (& inside it, to some extent) is key for Trade. I think LE has an opportunity to re-invent trade in a way that makes logical sense, and throws out the “traditional” model. If Trade is nothing more than another source of items in a loot-based game, then it becomes “necessary” to obtain loot at the “proper” rate, and you Devs needs to factor it into the drop rates, which penalizes SSF folks.
I think several ideas have been posted in this thread thus far:
- Certain items untradable (bind on pickup)
- Tradable items “bind on trade” to prevent permanent re-sale. (No flipping/market manipulation)
- Instability on Trade, to make trading for a crafting base less useful than finding one.
- Lower drop Rates on Account per Trade, so SSF do not suffer reduced drop rates but traders do.
- Free person-to-person trade for someone who was on your Friends List prior to the date/time stamp that the item was looted (have to track loot pickup timestamp, and Friends List add timestamp).
- And more I am not remembering.
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These 2 points simply contraddict each other: have 2 accounts, get the drops with one and sell/buy with the other.
I didn’t say EHG should do them all, it was just a list of all the ideas I remembered.
then there will just be a big trade guild
the thing about trade is that unless it only works on one specific ultra rare currency(that is really useful in almost every build, eg. something that lets you reroll idol prefix/suffix), players will just drop the price to an insanely low level no matter how you go about it.
Now that someone from EHG has responded and said that they are reading the stuff, I don’t think I need to repeat what I dislike about Bazaar in particular. Instead I will say what I do want.
1:Something other than gold to trade as a currency. It has to be somewhat rare and useful in builds for crafting or such(kinda like how chaos is defacto currency in PoE because it is used everywhere in crafting), even if it is just an idol reroller
2:I want looking at the bazzaar for what I want to be painless - as in not require me to mouse over items to know if it fits my filter.
3:I want to not have to wait forever for someone to even know that I put the item up for sale. There is nothing worse than getting that one unique that everyone wants and is willing to buy for a large amount of currency only for no-one to see it due it not popping up in the auction house.
4:I do not want cheated items/currency in the marketplace, I am not sure how you do this besides putting the game server side(and doing that creates PoE lag issues and a large server maintenance cost), the solution may be worse than the problem, so I am unsure of this one.
5:I use a high strictness filter and tend to see a item I would like to craft on almost every mono. I would like to be able to find a decent item in marketplace faster than it takes me to complete a mono run, keep in mind that I would need to farm anyways to afford whatever it is I am buying, - I am paying in the marketplace with generally farmable stuff to save me time farming something specific. High rarity items would likely be costly anyways, so I will not get perfect items right off the bat.
6:Item slots per player just encourages multiple accounts and bots if it is too small a number.
This is my favorite because it promotes a (small) community but it also need a realistic limit 10-15 people. Or else you could end up with everyone on your friends list. Also the pick up timestamp would need to be maintained between trade so that you don’t loop it to someone else.
I know all the drawbacks of trading and I’m against it. When I talked ‘trade within guild’ it was only exchange for another item or just a free give-away. Really why would anyone sell an item for gold to his / her guild mates? Besides an item should be character bound if traded (exchanged).
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They have said many many times that multiplayer is going to be server authoritative, meaning the server tells our client what’s happening and the client’s job is only to display that to us as well as take our input and send it to the server. Since only multiplayer characters would have access to the bazaar and those are stored on EHG’s servers there can’t be any cheated items on the bazaar.
That’s barter which is an entirely different (and way more primitive beast given money was invented around 600 BC purely to get around the fact that sometimes I don’t want any of your iron widgets in trade for my chicken, but I will always be happy to take your gold coins that I can then trade for whatever I want (probably some shiny beads on a string to keep the wife happy).
Also, who would require something of equal value from a guildie rather than just giving them the item they need for their build? Isn’t that a bit mercenary?
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I’m cool with the current concept of the Bazaar because it’s not that AH where you just pop in, and gear your complete character within 5 minutes because you have world wide access to every single item that somebody is selling.
Yes, there has to certain level ofconvenience.
There were some suggestions working with the lootfilter. Either this or create a shop filter where you can set a separate filter for items you want to shop. When you enter the Bazaar you get a visual hint at which vendor you get items matching that filter.
Maybe implement a buy order: You can set up a vendor that buys items that match your criteria.
Or have a Bazaar NPC that filters items for you. This NPC could also manage the buy orders. You put items into his window and if there are any buy orders for it he will buy it for the fixed price. The buyer will get a message that he can fetch the item from that NPC.
I’m ok with any trading system that is not the classic AH.
Having a Guild Stash (when Guilds are implemented), would be nice. Imho supporting friends and guild members with items is important for the sense of community a guild should provide.
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As I posted, what seems like a long long time ago, in this thread I am also perfectly fine with the currently stated concept of the Bazaar. I fully expect there to be tweaks made as and when needed. I remember, with great fondness, the “Marketplace” in Shaiya. I spent many happy hours in there chatting nonsense with others I had got to know on our server, and I used to do that while browsing people’s shops.
I enjoyed the concept of shopping as opposed to trading or just looking at an AH. Granted, it’s only my opinion, but I have actually experienced a “Bazaar” in an online game I have actually played in the past.
I’ve used AH’s in other games and they have been useful but it’s very clinical. I’ve experienced PoE’s vision of “trading” and absolutely detested it. In games where getting the BiS is mandatory to play end game and you need to get it asap, then AH’s worked the best for me in the past. In LE, I don’t feel that immediate need to get BiS as soon as I hit Monos and I’m happy to grind for it; this is one of the things I love the most about LE atm. In light of the non-panic to get BiS gear, I think that a Bazaar will give a new experience for most hardened vets and indeed might turn out to be a refreshing change from what they’ve experienced in PoE, WoW, or Diablo games. I still say, give it a chance, experience it, and then form your own firm opinions.
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