If I was my toon I’d always reverse the time untill I have the rng that makes items the way I want them to be. In theory the game and lore already gave us the means to always have the outcome we want because of time travel and the RNG nature of the game system ^^.
Yes, everybody always wants to get the perfect items for their build, but that’s never going to happen (as in, the devs wouldn’t allow/create such functionality to enable the easy crafting of ideal gear).
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I don’t want no crap items that’s all 
. Then again I know RNG is the soul of the genre no matter how rotten it is nowdays.
What do you mean, nowadays? D2 had the most rotten crafting RNG ever. I don’t think any game after D2 had a worst crafting system 
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And that’s part of the crux of the problem. Why not?!?!?! Virtually every other game ever conceived allows players to get their BiS/Perfect/Near-Perfect gear, with a realistic time investment. So far, LE is the only game I’ve encountered that advertises Perfect gear, but doesn’t actually want you to obtain it.
But if, for argument sake, all items dropped as max roll max tier with the desired affixes, how would one determine “good” items from “bad” items? There can be no good if there is no evil.
I’m going to have to play the beta card here. Did said “every other game” (virtually or otherwise) allow you to get "BiS/Perfect/Near-Perfect gear within a realistic timeframe during beta? I’m pretty sure PoE didn’t, nor D4. Not sure about D3 since one can always argue about what a “realistic timeframe” is, since that’s somewhat subjective.
I guess I could play the ‘time is relative’ card here, and say that realistic is subjective, when you take the age of the universe, as a whole, into account. 25 years to get 1 4LP, perfect roll, is nothing compared to the billions of years it took humans to finally appear… 
But, considering most games actually have increased drop rates during betas, in order to better balance items/skills/etc before release, I’d say that beta card doesn’t play very well…D4 uber uniques not-withstanding. POE didn’t have any restrictions on re-rolling Unique stats, so a shitty roll item could become BiS easy enough, with enough currency :). I had a 6L Shav’s on my first character, and that was on the rarest of rare sides of the chace item spectrum in the beginning(s). I was also the proud owner (still am, I think) of a 2%-from-perfect Soultaker when it was one of the BiS melee items. And I don’t even play hardcore hours, or hedge the trade market.
There’s also no point in good/evil if everyone is stuck with whatever they are handed at birth (no free-will), which is what we get with Uniques, and the inability to re-roll the stat ranges on them.
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Actually, this has me curious. First, the OP is Uniques but Irrelevant’s post says ‘no crap items’ so I’m going to go under the guise that this is referencing all drops.
Given the extent of variety in builds in LE and the variety of skills and potential diversity around all sorts of build concepts, how would it be possible to target what some one may need in order to NOT make it a ‘crap item’ drop?
I know some games have weighted stuff for class (d3 added this if memory serves at one point) but it seems to me this would be a logistical coding nightmare to try to determine on every single character on every single run.
I would imagine the only way to do this would be introducing generic runes/glyphs/tokens/“endgame mechanics” that allow you to take something and clean it and rebuild it.
So how different would it be if they seriously nerfed the drop rate of things but added something that gives you a bit more control over building it to something useful.
I’m not a statistician but this seems like just two-side of the same coin.
- Over abundance of drops with lucky drops
- Minimal drops with lucky crafting up?
I probably didn’t explain my query as clearly as I hope but I think the gist is there.
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I’m pretty sure Torchlight had weighted affixes years before D3. Maybe some other title before that.
What D3 added (and which I personally hated) was adding weights to classes, so you’d get more drops for your class. D4 compounded on this.
In theory, the best affixes have the least weight. So in order to maximize the good drops, all you’d need to do is reverse the weights. Of course, you could still get bad RNG and get a bad drop, but most drops would be better.
Other than that, pretty much the only way to guarantee that every drop is a good drop is to have a list of all the builds with all the BiS gear they can use and use only that as a drop table. Meaning uniques always drop with 4LP and only uniques that are useful to some build. And regular drops are always 4xT7.
Personally, I found D3 extremely boring with how easy it was to gear up and even get BiS gear. I wouldn’t want that in any other ARPG.
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I’d imagine you could do it based on skills used & skill points/passives taken. But it would be a ballache.
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Not always though. If you look at PoE, many builds have 3 variants: High health, low life and chaos immune. The way you play them depends on the gear, even though you mostly have the same skills. Even when there are changes in skills, you’ll usually start the build as high health before finding the gear that lets you change to low life/CI.
Even in LE you have that. The Curse’s earthquake build is a good example of this. You start as a normal build, once you can wear exsanguinus and maybe the boots (forgot their name) you take the points in the tree. Your system would require “wasting” the points first before finding the gear.
One way to achieve the perfect loot, though, would be with a sort of reverse filter system. You fill it with the stuff you want and only that drops from then on. Like you want a helmet with T7 affixes in health/health/crit/dmg or whatever, you want a 4LP bleeding heart, etc.
This is all academic, of course. The game would be awful like that 
This was my suspicion but I know enough code to be dangerous so I try not to offer my thoughts on things of that nature, just ask questions.
I don’t play PoE so I can’t speak to the depth there, only things I hear second hand, but I think this would still be really, really tough because there’s so many types of builds in LE. Sure, many of them might be based around a few particular traits but one of the beauties that EHG, imo, is really trying to make a lot of stuff very viable. Yes, they have a ways to go (we can all lament FG, Marksman and the soon to be chuffed Shaman) but trying to keep up with everything possible and make loot drops gear towards that would be a potential sisyphusian effort.
Some new types of crafting materials I think are a definite must. I can see a Rune (like a Rune of Creation) that allows you to reset a Unique back to it’s base LP, ONCE, for another change at crafting a Better-in-Slot* legendary. Or another Rune to re-roll the base stats of a Unique. All should be very rare. With the concept of the Merophage weapon (which is essentially I think a subtle test by EHG to see what happens if we get the opportunity to reroll legendaries) plus the addition of Factions I think we’ll see some interesting things.
*Better in Slot. Maybe we need to all redefine what BiS means in terms of LE. They might now really want to push for a BEST in slot. Especially if they’re trying to make gear more flexible and more impactful on the power of a build.
At the moment.
Who’s asking for easy crafting?
Deterministic does not necessitate easy.
Yeah I just think of that faction as ideal for SSF as if you’re going to trade with others you might as well use the full trade faction. But yes CoF does work well for people that love to party together a lot.
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That’s stupid philosophical crap. A BiS item is a BiS item is a BiS item. If you are showered in those then they are less entertaining but still BiS items. It’s like D3 and the droprates there everything that isn’t ancient is meh and primal ites are kind of fun. Yet there are exampels of crap items like mage idols with pet stats for exampel.
PoE was always rather easy since I played it. Just buy the gear you want. I played the beta with a group that of people who traded frequently so it wasn’t an issu. D4? LOL! D4 BiS gear was no problem in the beta because you had far to much time to grind stuff vecause there was nothing else to do.
It is yes.
Are you taling about smartlootish stuff? I don’t think that works with LE sadly because everything is that random and everyone can use every stat that isn’t class specific. I wish the game was smart enough to see that I make a fire build and offers me more fire stuff or gives me the procc idols I need if I obviously play said throwing build. Then again we are back in the realm of content stretching. If people need 20-30% less time to get to “This is it? rly?” point then it’sa bad thing ^^.
Would you mind to explain this a bit more indepth? I’m always happy when games offer me loot for my class or a lootfilter so I can choose what i want to see. I play Grim Dawn atm and the ammount of items I left behind because I have an as strict as possible lootfilter is a joke because it shines yellow, grre, blue and purple everywhere ^^ as in 99.9% of the drops are useless crap.
On the bottom line: Farming for something specific is always the most frustrating because our stupid human brain get’s fed up by the tries that didn’t drop what we want. Stupid brain!
Whoever I was replying to.
If that’s what you think then you didn’t understand what I meant. If every item is the same quality then none of them are BiS.
I didn’t play in a group & trading sucked.
That was my point about having smart-ish lootdone via the skills/passives you use.
Yup, and we’re very not good at “understanding” statistics on an emotional level.
They are still all BiS by definition people just look at them and don’t see anything special anymore . There is a difference between perception and what something is and that’s why a BiS item will stay a BiS item for me no matter how people look at it or call it.
It’s even worse, we do’nt understand emotions and react emotional to stuff where no emotions ever should be involved.
Well, I’ll start by stating that this is a personal preference and that some people actually like that system.
To me, part of the fun of ARPGs, all the way back from many years playing D2, was playing the game and getting a really great drop for another class. A tstroke would drop and I’d go like “Wow, that’s great, I’ll make a zon next”.
In D3, and even more so in D4, you have no incentive to make new chars. Everything that drops is for your class, so you keep playing that char. If you want to try another class, you have to start over, there aren’t drops that will help you (other than a few generic ones).
As I said, it’s a personal preference, but I love playing and getting drops that make me want to try other builds. In D3 I would always stick with 2-3 classes and that’s it.
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But if all of them are BiS how do you know which one is better for your build?
Yup.
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I never needed a good drop to be intrested to play another class. I play what pleases me and that’s it if i have gear for it or not. Sure I get some people need a carrot first before they get intrested but that’s not me. I simply run it down ^^.
Why should I care if all of them are BiS? If all of them are BiS I can equip whatever I want because they are all BiS. At the end of the day I take the BiS items with the BiS affixes for the build I want to play. I don’r buy into this “If everyone is a hero noone is a hero” crap because it’s made up crap and never a good example. In a game where you are able to choose to play a crit build or a dot build or a hp reg build one mans BiS is another mans trash.