I understood you perfectly. You don’t want to play seasons because you don’t have time and want to stick and play with characters you invested time in. So because you don’t want to play seasons but want to enjoy ladders, you want EHG to have the ladder system in legacy. I read and comprehend perfectly fine. I wasn’t for or against your idea, merely curious why people play ARPGs when to most avid ARPG fans seasons has been staple in the genre. It doesn’t matter to me either way. I wouldn’t care if legacy gets a ladder, but I do want EHG to focus on priority issues, which legacy ladder is not one of.
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I’m not sure but i heard awhile ago that PoE had like 10% - 20% of it’s Playerbase in Standart-mode, which is considering it’s a pretty online-centric game quite some numbers. For D2 i would guess even a bit higher numbers because you shouldn’t forget all the offline,- and non-bnet players which didn’t had access too (plus unlike nowdays where Seasons are much much more fleshed out with much more content, D2 was pretty much ladder, where you can bet that the average person just doesn’t care). And Grim Dawn have quite a playerbase / sold quite well and don’t even have any seasons to begin with(community made one via mod, but that’s rather niche / smaller).
So i personally would argue it’s a bit of an perception issue. Season player will interpret more value / main-appeal in Season, non-season players obv. in non-season. What are the raw facts 
only devs know, maybe in a few seasons in we could ask EHG what’s the percentage of season and nonseason player in LE.
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Obviously it wouldn’t be from scratch. I was just saying that it’s not simply copy/paste and it’s done in 5 minutes.
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A small remark, not for argument, but just information about the LE seasons:
Not everyone likes seasons, as mentioned above, 10-20% in ROE play non-season
I understand not everyone likes seasons. Just curious because from my experience, most online ARPGs have a form of seasonal content, following POEs footsteps. I think it’s safe to say non-seasonal players are the minority and I’m kind of baffled at those players trying to change how things operate based on a minority’s likes and dislikes. EHG already stated they would allow non-seasonal characters to participate in seasonal content, which I find to be fine. I’m also fine with non-seasonal ladder, but want them to focus on other higher priority items before getting there.
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Just a note: too many people care about buggy builds in leaderboards. It’s just a storm.
It feels like some miss the point that, those who don’t care about leaderboards, also want to do new content/ seasonal events without having to making a completely new character every 3 months. So if we make legacy characters it would mean us only ever playing the content as it is right now. No new mechanics that are introduced like in seasons. I think if anything have that content for both but only have a leadership board on seasonal for the competitive people. Also there’s no reason for the animosity that people get at each other for different playstyles. The game can be for both if done right. I almost used the word “tryhards” but decided that it was derogatory just the same as comments like “sucks for you”. Lets try and keep it civil and realize that games are made for more than just “your” type of player.
Cycle/Season reset - this will never change, period. Not just LE - all arpg’s…
Want to play same character for 5, 6 months - that’s why Legacy/Standard exist.
I am a father of 2, little time to play so I understand all your points, what I wrote above are just facts that at this point in arpg history we can consider “written in stone”
Exactly the same for me, I play only non-season and loike to push the leaderbaords.
Strange is if you go now to see leaderbaords here on the website yuou will see that yuou can choose what leaderbaqords to see, season or non-season. so for sure there will be no leaderbaords in non-season?
btw, could we see in game the leaderbaords? or just on website?
to be honest if they will disable leaderboards in non-season I will leave the game immediately. and of course, I created a seasonal char in the beggining becasue in first days of release there was no possibility to choose between seaon/non-season, so hopefully at the end of season my seasonal char will be moved to non-season.
Topic is not about “Legacy/Standard exist” or “written in stone”. It is about non season leaderboard. Have you to tell anything against it?
I think there should be non-season leaderboard, from my point of view - those who love to chase/push leaderboard will have it. Those who dont care about leaderboards - they don’t care and are not affected by it. Even though I am one of the latter, I think it should be reset periodically - broken warlock once nerfed cannot be surpassed
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If you’re asking for
- No resets (Legacy)
- Online play (So can’t notepad chars into Cycle)
- Cycle content
- Leaderboards
Then why would anyone ever chose not to?
What choice is there to make except eat your cake and have it too?
(not to mention that never being able to remove mechanics, because Legacy means no fun experiments)
@NewOff I feel what you’re saying 100% and I’m torn at the moment on what I think about LE long term. The endgame is super fun for me, farming items, comparing gear and pushing corruption. On the other hand, getting to level 100 was an experience I don’t want to go through again at the moment. LE is not to blame for this feeling, I’ve never liked leveling, I just play games for the endgame. I saw the 99 levels before that as just the “tutorial” to my toon. Nothing I need to go through again as long as I don’t feel like playing another class. In addition, the story of LE is just ARPG like. Which is perfectly OK because I don’t play an ARPG for the story. Due to this, I also don’t feel like I have to go through it again. So at the moment I’m not willing to create a new toon after cycle 1 and I’m making friends with the idea of playing legacy afterwards. But the ladder is actually the only point that makes me struggle a bit with this decision.
Having a ladder in legacy would actually be fantastic and solve this conflict for me. Because what should I do, if I have all my desired items and the corruption is at the level I can just trade, but still have no desire to get another toon at level 100? Climbing up the ladder would definitely be a option.
For me, the ladder wouldn’t even have to be reset. Due to the limited number of items and meta builds, the time advantage that a player who has been playing legacy longer than I have is only temporary. In addition I believe, the hours played per day over a certain period of time per toon is certainly not linear for any player. So I think that, if you play more efficiently than others, concentrate on one build and invest enough hours, this advantage can shrink very quickly.
And what a challenge and a triumph it would be to conquer the ladder with a younger legacy character and sweep old hands off their places. For me at least, 1000 times more interesting than playing the “tutorial” again every 3 to 4 month.
And yes, it’s purely about not wanting to get to the 99 levels before level 100. Time is absolutely not the problem, I have enough of it, but wasting it on something I don’t enjoy is not something I want to do.
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Playing with the same char for multiple months would be utterly boring, so i think reset is not a bad way. Especially in a game where you farm “end game” gear within 30 hours. Which is nothing compare to games like PoE.
I don’t think anyone is against a legacy leaderboard. It’s just far down the priority list. There are far more important things to be implemented/fixed before that.
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Why this comment are u someone who say? Who doesnt want to put the time in the game arent aloud to compete? I mean i dont say u are but it comes over this way. People wanna play games but some dont have the time or they want to spend time with family also.
Play as you like. But it’s no different from running a few hours a week to train for a marathon. You’ll be allowed to enter, and you may even finish, but you won’t be a competitive runner.
Say you play a few hours a week in Legacy. At the end of every cycle, all the try-hard characters will come into legacy after hundreds of hours of play. They will also have loads of items and millions of gold coins and cany pay many times more than you for the best items. Every cycle, they will become even richer on Legacy. Do you really think there is any point in comparing their characters to yours?
I decided to try a new class; going through the company makes me sick. The thought that i will have to do this again and again completely turns me away from the game.
Am I right to assume that this is not about lack of time on your hands but that you just simply do not enjoy leveling, or gearing fresh characters,?
If that is the case then it is clear that ARPGs (Last Epoch, Path of Exile, Diablo 4, etc.)¨ are not for you.
I would say games like League of Legends are something you are looking for. I am sure there are other types of competitive games where you can compete in ladder/leaderboard without having to level or finish Campaigns.
On the other hand, if someone does not have time to level new character(s) each season because they have 5 kids and 3 jobs, then they should never expect to compete in ladders.
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I love it when someone decides whether to give me an opportunity or not.