It’s all about balance and tiers, too much farm for a single common pair of boots is a problem.
When I talk about tiers, I’m talking about offering players the chance to target the items they’re looking for as the game progresses = less rng but still work that’s rewarded if they’re unlucky.
For example, a spécific boss or quest = improve the chance of getting a unique (or set) significantly each time you kill him with increasing difficulty, another boss is to increase the type of unique (helmet, boots, weapon or other) as one chance in ten and up to 100% chance, The next is to choose the class or type of item (dagger, bow, hammer, type of armour) and finally, in the same way, to choose the specific item you want. All this while respecting the original philosophy, which is that if the item is very rare, it should be very difficult and time-consuming to obtain 100% of it, but not impossible, and in the end : no more rng.
That will depend a lot on the player. To me, it’s both. The lack of gear chase and the lack of endgame are both dealbreakers for me.
TBH, if LE still has the same endgame a year from now, I’ll probably get bored of it as well.
Only for the veterans/grinders. The casual player has almost no chance of getting BiS gear. They can easily get baseline gear, but that’s it.
When you consider that many BiS gear costs up to dozens of divines, that’s not fairly accessible. Though, tbf, LE is in the same situation.
It’s not any different than PoE’s double corrupts. Getting that double corrupt you want is either a huge stroke of luck after a lot of RNG farming, or it’s really really expensive. So the same thing as in LE, where it’s a huge stroke of luck or it’s really really expensive. Same thing.
It’s all of that. Each part of that appeals to a different type of player and there are even players that like them all combined.
There are players where the item chase is the real goal and the endgame is just a tool for it. Others see the endgame as the goal and the gear is the tool for it. Your balance between all that determines which players want to play your game.
The truth is that, at the moment, this game is not healthy for people who have a life outside of the game. Even for people who play a considerable amount of hours a day, it is difficult to get decent items for the build to scale during the season.
I believe that an improvement in the chance of getting unique items up to lp2 is already something interesting for people who cannot play many hours a day. But maintaining the difficulty of obtaining LP3 and LP4, for people who want to go to the limit of the build.
However, another big problem is that the game doesn’t give us an indication of 'how good your character should be’ to be considered a good/viable build.
For example, is it expected that a good build can finish all t4 dungeons, 200 arena waves, 500 corruption? And are builds that get 2k+ waves, 2k+ corruption overpower and likely to be nerfed?
When this type of notion is better inserted into the community, I believe the game will be more satisfying. More casual players will obtain the necessary items to make their builds work, upgrade them, play for a while and then move on to another character, or wait for the next league, without comparing themselves much to those who go beyond what is expected by the game. .
In POE, for example, there is a difficulty ceiling, and most people don’t expect to reach it. There is no ceiling here, and there always seems to be a need to go further - and that’s okay - but more casual players need to understand that they don’t always need to be chasing the top.
This was exactly what I posted in a different thread and got nothing but negative comments. These leagues last a few weeks to a month for a LARGE majority of players. The less chance the have at getting chase items, the faster they will leave.
I have a lvl 100 (500+ corruption), a 98 (300+ corruption, and an 84 just got to empowered. I have found ZERO lp4 items and a few crappy (worth 0 in MG) 3 lp.
I have farmed for a 1lp wings for a week and have not found it. Bad enough it took me 12 boss kills to get empowered void resist. Way too much rng for way to short of a timeframe.
No, it’s actually very easy to get decent items. It’s just hard to get BiS items. But you can get baseline gear to do 300 corruption monos very very easily.
No build needs legendary items. Just the unique. Legendary is chasing for BiS gear, so it should be rare.
True, but outside of just corrupt-bricking an item, even a bad double-corruption will still be on a GG item. POE let’s you re-roll all the affixes/implicits. And, also allows limited enchantments to Uniques. In LE, what you get is what you get… get that rare drop item? Well, better hope it rolled well. Oh, and now you want LP? Same thing, better hope it got good rolls AND LP. Oh, now you’re LP crafting it? Better hope your exalted has good rolls. Now pray you got the Unique to drop, with good rolls, with enough LP, and an exalted with the right Affixes, and good rolls … AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND pray the LP craft picks the right affixes…
Oh, it didn’t? Sorry, start all over again!
I’m sorry. I like the game, been playing since kickstarter… but… I just hate this RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG aspect of it. With little-to-no control over the rarest areas of crafting… and the what you get is what you get nature of Unique stats.
But that’s not necessarily the case, and that is the problem. If you get a build-required Unique with shit rolls, even LP4 won’t save it.
I would like to reroll at least the ranges on uniques. At least, let me do that if it doesn’t have LP. Let me do reroll on ranges on ALL items. It’s a rune so it can be done but I don’t know if they would have to add durability (I know it has a different name) to all items then.
It’s just like failing to get the affixes you want on your unique.
The first one would actually be nice to have in LE, but it’s still RNG. It’s just a different source of it. And the second one is also RNG. So PoE is also layer over layer of RNG. You need to get the unique to drop, then you need to reroll it (or get another drop with better rolls), then you need to get the right enchant, then you need to double corrupt and hope you don’t have to start over.
PoE doesn’t seem so bad because you can simply trade for most of it.
Should be a rare rune (same rarity as Ascension perhaps), and can’t be used once the item is crafted Legendary. So you need to prep it, prior to LP-crafting, same as you would in POE with corrupting items.
Yes, but outside of corruption, my chances aren’t limited. I can reroll affixes until I die…or the game servers shut down. I can attempt to hit the affixes I want on an item, as many times as I want… once again, until I die. So yes, there is RNG on RNG. But, it’s not limited by some RNG-limited/RNG-deteriorating amount like FP.
Unique items do not have FP, and Refinement is FAR too common to be a consideration. It would have to be a new Rune, with the explicit use of Re-rolling Uniques, without using/requiring FP.
That’s my take. Why does re-rolling uniques have to be locked to rare mats? There’s a lot of RNG to brick the item through craft and it still needs LP to be turned into legendary. There is even less of a use for refinement once you get to end-game because you’re not looking for any item that it will be useful for. It’s a dead rune to late-game characters.
If the drop rate is the only thing holding it back, increase it to be uncommon.
If FP is the problem, adding FP to uniques/exalted is probably easy to do. It’s not seen in the UI but I doubt they aren’t treating them as base items. Their FP are probably 0 in the back-end and UI treats them differently. Devs could just put them into the pool of FP generation and only allow those runes to work OR just have those runes not use FP on uniques/exalted.
Even if they made a new rune to do rerolls, they also should be craftable or purchasable. The runes SHOULDN’T be super rare, perhaps a little lower than Ascension but more than Despair Glyph. You’ll need more than just one to use to reroll to acceptable ranges for the item and will need a stockpile to get ONE unique + exalted → legendary god roll.
You must be talking specifically about your build. At the moment, for example, the build I’m playing needs a lot of CD reduction and INT , but it also needs a large number of uniques to work. So I need them to be at least Lp(1), but ideally they would be Lp(2). It’s certainly not a build for starting a new league - just like in POE, there are builds for the beginning of a league, and builds for the middle of the league, which only become good when you get very specific items, beyond the basics. There are builds that with very little can go up to corruption level 300, but that can’t improve much beyond that even with insane upgrades… other builds don’t work at all with common items, but with certain items they can go beyond 1000 of corruption. So your argument is not valid, since many Lp(2) items are extremely rare and it is unlikely that a more casual player will be able to drop or buy them -
so these players only have one alternative, which is not to play with some builds, just stick to the basics, easy and cheap (a very mediocre and petty option, by the way).
My thorn totems shaman had mostly unique items (only 2 slots weren’t unique) all with 0LP and it still did fine.
If you’re creating your build around the need to have LP items then that’s your fault. You can do it as long as you know that it’s really rare. In PoE you can also do mirror tier builds, you just have to farm a lot for them. Or you can simply buy them. Pretty sure that even in the current state of Bazaar, you can easily get 2LP items of almost all uniques.
But the fact is that you don’t ever need LP to reach the 300 corruption which is the base goal the devs want. You’re wanting to push 1k corruption (which is way WAY higher than the devs intend) so obviously the gear should be rare. In fact, it should even be rarer, since you should never be able to get that high.
The ‘ultimate problem’ is that the game failed in all those aspects and not a single one.
Gear acquisition is a major point of loot based ARPGs. Chronicon for example is a single player ARPG which has interesting gear and a way to endlessly scale, for the time investment needed the end-game is ok… but rather swiftly you get all the possible items there exist as well as the ability to push them to the absolute possible limit.
And then? Well… then there’s no goal anymore, simple as that, you stop after having a bit of fun with the build as it is and simply end it there, exceptions apply for some very few people.
Same concept here.
First of all… no… no it definitely has not. I even imagine you’ve never had a BiS item to date yet because that’s a double corrupted unique or a mirror-tier item for said slot. BiS simply describes the base item with which the build function in PoE as everything beyond would be nonsensical.
As for the RMT part… whoever uses that as a customer deserves a bitch-slap since they’re the ones enabling the whole disaster to happen in the first place. As a seller I can understand it, business is business after all… but as a buyer you have not a single excuse for it.
Actually it’s to keep people playing as long as possible and bring them back in the first place, not to have them solely stay for a few weeks.
Optimally those games want the people to never leave for a single day as more playtime means more potential sales from their shop.
It does.
Mirror-tier.
Double-corrupted items.
Max crafted items in Torchlight Infinite.
Mageblood belt in PoE.
And much much more.
It fits perfectly into that segment as they all have ‘you can go even beyond what you have’ gated behind excessive time investment.
It exactly is, with around a dozen other things necessary to make sure it survives.
You can have a boatload of content and still loose players if said content has no ‘place’.
And yes, that includes:
because said ‘quality’ means you’ll need to have it not only enjoyable to play but also provide a reasonable amount of challenge towards you.
Sure!
It’s definitely doable to provide a roughly equivalent deterministic mechanic for those drops.
Are you willing to also expedite the effort to acquire it then? The percentile chance to drop said items are after all there with a specific reason.
So let’s say we go with a system of that manner… a single unique drop, let’s say 1k favor needed for one, baseline (for easy math simply).
So saying we want a boss specific drop we would need a 5-10 multiplier here, let’s make 5 to have it a bit easier. Which means 5k for ‘any’ boss drop.
Now let’s also implement the next step, that specific item needs to drop, deterministic. If it does with a 20% chance it would be another 5 multiplier… so… 25k for said drop. No LP implemented yet.
a 1 LP is 15% or so, hence let’s ease it down to a 6 multiplier, hence 150k favor for that.
Willing to still pay that?
Now let’s directly go to a 4 LP, which in the OP case isn’t even a boss-drop but a random rare boot unique ‘Blood of the Exile’ (Stymied Fate would be an actual viable example here though)
It’s a 0,000001% chance… so a 1 in 100 million chance.
Which means our 25k needs to be at least multiplied by that! So… 25 trillion Favor.
Sure, then we can start talking about it, absolutely reasonable to allow it with that baseline in mind after all.
I just don’t think OP or you have that in mind.
If you’re still unhappy about those chances then I guess an item which provides up to 36 attribute points (which in itself is ridiciulous) a baseline guaranteed 30% movement speed (also quite ridiculous) and on top of that a ‘more’ multiplier for bleed + duration increase seemingly isn’t enough for you here.
It’s a nonsensical thing to ask in the first place, the stats on that item are absolutely ridiculous in the first place… complaining you can’t get it with 3 or 4 LP hence is utterly and absolutely nonsensical.
The system does exactly what it’s supposed to do, which is stopping people from realistically getting that thing while still providing the jackpot chance to do so.
It’s not a complex concept to understand as for what the reasons might be after seeing that item… and saying ‘builds are stiffled without LP on it!’ is even more nonsensical.
It’s whining on high level, making it available easier is asking to make the whole game a lot quicker and easier overall by many many times.
Yes… and the people investing the massive amount of time are fine with it. It’s a game designed for said people and not those without time.
What’s the goal you expect to reach?
What’s the ‘considerable amount’ you’re speaking of?
Please get a bit more into detail what ‘difficult’ means there in that context as well.
It’s too generalized and can used to shove goalposts around willy-nilly, a bit more precision is needed to answer that argument. Might be something behind it… might not… unable to discern that though.
Depends… a 2 LP common unique is piss-easy to acquire, if you can’t invest the time for that then the game isn’t for you in the first place.
If it’s about boss-drop based 2 LP items then we can start to talk.
If it’s about rare boss-drop based uniques then the whole argument becomes nonsensical since once again… you’re not meant to get it easily and likely will need to invest a ridiculous amount of time.
300 corruption.
Dev-based argument.
Balance isn’t good currently but we know of said goal.
Work with that since clear-cut limiters are not present yet or maybe even in the future.
T4 dungeons: yes
200 waves? Unlikely, lower
500 corruption. Lower
2k cut-off? Too high, 1k is already too high.
That definitely is something I can agree with. Because it needs to be highlighted more. But we’re already at the point where nigh any build can achieve it half-way easily.
Their problem, not the problem of the game actually.
The only issue is when people start to think they’re entitled to endlessly scale without a limit on every singular build without exception.
Just as intended and expected!
And saying a 3 LP item is ‘crappy’ rather means you have no clue what it means to have 3 extra stats on a already special item, even if it’s a weak unique. You get those stats on top of it, it becomes vastly stronger then a exalted item by itself.
A 4 LP item is always stronger then a exalted item… and means you can outfit every single slot of your character with a unique without fail.
Expecting that? Change your expectations… that’s the only thing which needs to be adjusted.
Which is a 25% chance to happen and even then it can turn out to be worse then before. Wrong corrupts can have negative effects for your build and if the corrupt is not useful then adjusting the item becomes extremely expensive in comparison to before.
So it fits exactly in the category.
Actually the LE system of LP is more lenient since your item never just ‘poofs’ with a high chance.
Yes, since in comparison to PoE the likelyhood of getting a ‘decent’ item is several thousandfold more likely despite PoE showering you with dozens of them per map in end-game.
Why?
We have 7 Tier, at most.
Everything has 5 tiers baseline.
PoE has over 10 tiers, more then double the available affixes and a lot of limiters for crafting which don’t exist in LE… and hopefully to a degree never will.
The PoE system is magnitudes more punishing then the system in LE, which is why we have limited re-crafts in the first place… otherwise you would always get a top-tier item in no time from a white one and that’s your progression need solved.
Plainly spoken… unless the specific roll is especially highly diverse in what it can provide nobody gives a single thought how well it’s rolled. 1 LP already makes up for the lowest possible roll… 2 LP already makes it better then a perfectly rolled unique without LP, 4 LP makes an item utterly ridiculous.
Nah, not hope… you farm until you get your proper exalted for it.
If you don’t do that then it’s solely on you and you’ve been impatient. Don’t fault the game for your own shortcomings.
Yes, you can get a rare unique half-decently reliable with 2 LP after a few hours of farming.
That means you get a 50% chance for the one major affix to be chosen while also providing a second positive affix as a bonus. With a 3 LP it’s a 75% chance, and 4 LP we don’t need to talk since you only use utterly perfected T7 items anyway.
Nah, use the one which is better then your non-LP unique you’ve sported until then. Welcome upgrade!
Wrong premise once more.
Then the game isn’t for you, if it’s a dealbreaker then you’ve chosen badly, simple as that.
People play it because of the item hunt and not despite it.
Nonsensical.
If your build requires it then it has a mod on it which is damn powerful for your build, better then what a 4 T5 item provides.
Hence it’s better.
So saying it’s useless when the roll is bad is just hyperbole unless the roll variance is massive… which is extremely rare in the game and for the detailed item example here is simply not the case.
30 or 40 more? Who cares? it’s 30 more already.
Bleed duration? Not important with the game speed we have.
24 attributes on the item? Already ridiciulous… 36 won’t make much difference in power scaling here.
So absolute and utter hyperbole in terms of how important it is.
No, that’s not the case.
You’re limited by the currency orbs allowing you to do that.
LE provides a lot of the crafting items, PoE doesn’t for those needed in the respective case.
The whole difference is that you can trade for them in PoE, which makes it so a miniscule amount of people have the ability to use them like candy and the others simply can’t.
You as a singular player though would need to invest hundreds of hours to get the respective amount to get the fitting role.
Oh… in LE it’s the time investment to get a proper item to drop. That’s the equivalent here.
They’re highly sought after items so adjusting them in the first place should be a highly sought after material.
Hence rare.
That’s why it has to be.
You use it the second you have finished a craft and got FP left. Simple as that.
If you fail to do that it’s on you, not the game again.
Exalted items already have it.
They are ‘base items’.
They absolutely should be if implemented. The implementation idea of those itself is a good thing though, more options overall are good.
And only double-corrupted, out of that entire list, is a ‘take it how it you get it’. Everything else can be modified. Hell, even corrupted items have limited ways to be modified. But in LE, you get a Unique with crappy rolls, that’s too bad… that’s what you got. Bricked the LP craft? Tough shit, that’s RNG being RNG.
Yes, RNG is an unfortunately necessity in the genre. But, too much RNG can have the opposite effect on player retention.
And it’s asinine to propose that obtaining said items would somehow ‘break the game’. Because, if that were the case, the mere existence of a single one in the game would cause a huge unfair advantage to the player, and wreak havoc on the leaderboards.
OH NOES! Someone has an additional 100 hp on their Wings of Argentus. I guess they are now going to be able to complete an additional 50,000 corruption!
It’s always the same “instant gratification” or “Handing Out BiS Items Simulator™” boogeyman, whenever someone suggests making loot realistically accessible, within a given cycle, or non-streamermode timeframe.
True!
PoE provides a pure time-gate to acquire the necessary materials.
LE provides said gate by the acquisition of the item itself.
So it can be put into an equivalency state.
Only since a short while since it became a pure necessity by how many ways exist to get those nowadays. Something which wasn’t the case in 2.0 for example, long long ago.
True! If said RNG happens during core progression.
This is the case in PoE as the core progression is depicted as reaching Maven, which not many do.
Clearly a problem there.
We don’t have it in LE though.
No, since it can’t be acquires easily
The whole point of it. It’s not the case despite it… but because of it.
A major difference.
Well, the drop-rates for boss-specific uniques in CoF is too low… that’s something we can argue about since it’s solely a oversight from the system there to acquire the same multiplication methods otherwise accessible to boss-items as well.
All others? They’re set up in that manner since LP was implemented, for a good reason so and adjusted a little bit even.
It’s a fairly solid system.
So yes, there you’ll get a lot of backlash since it’s turned out to function very well and also keep people engaged without hindering progression in a major way.
Lp(2) is far, far away from being compared to mirror tear… lp(3) is much rarer than lp(2)… lp(4) is infinitely rarer, so getting a rare unique item lp(1) should be compared to, at most, getting a good unique 6-link in POE… an lp(2) at most would be a unique 6-link with great rows… lp(3), lp(4) can be compared to mirror tear items. I just think people should be able to easily create builds around lp(1) and lp(2) in a league, but you’re stuck with your opinion, because you use yourself as an example… so I have no reason to argue any further. I play several hours a day, so for me it’s not a problem anyway - I’m just thinking about the people who can’t play much.
In my mind COF is not really designed for Cycle Content where u play with kind of time limit. So ultra buff COF? but whats the point of Trade then. What do ppl expect when choosing COF? You choose the self grind and then u come here and complain?!
