I have 443hrs in-game and I loved it, I truly did. You don’t make that investment of time if you aren’t liking what you are doing.
Two things made me question what I had achieved with that time and the 2nd one broke me:
Made rank 10 CoF and couldn’t get the item I needed to drop despite approx. 40-50hrs of time on it - I had nothing to show for it and was frustrated. The solution was obvious, I switched to MG and am rank 9 currently. Was the right call - I could now sell the items dropped that weren’t for my character and buy the things I did need.
Interacting with the Eternal Cache has unfortunately done my head in. The nested rng and coin required, to get to the position where you have your 2LP/3LP item and damn good exalted to slam it with take time and effort to put together. I have recently bricked attempts to get a 2LP and 3LP Titan Heart (~$170m) to take a +3 / +4 levels to Erasing Strike (yes I play pure health, what an idiot…) and both failed.
I am sure there will be posters here that say that is what a ARPG is. If an ARPG can leave you feeling left with little to show for 400+ hrs of effort in the higher end gears then I guess its not for me.
I hope some changes are made to the Eternal Cache where you can guarantee 1 of the 4 affixes go over - then you at least have moved your character forward, not invalidated the last week of your time.
Keep well and I will watch future patch notes before Cycle 2 to see if anything is changed. If not, I’m out and you guys keep having fun. Thanks
First, thanks for your feedback.
It is well argumented and makes perfect sense, and I don’t mean to diminish it in any way.
I just don’t think the suggested “solution” would work.
Except it wouldn’t work.
Because everybody would quickly get the first affix they want, and complain just as loud that they can never get their second affix right and the system is a shame.
In other words, the starting point would become having a legendary with one perfect affix, but the RNG would still be here afterwards and bring the same feelings.
When legendaries were introduced in 0.8, high-end ones were meant to be something incredibly rare, the kind of stuff you dream of but never really see.
Now, with more players and the introduction of trade, they have become common and everybody wants to get the perfect one.
Personally I prefer them super-rare. That’s why I play CoF, I don’t think I will ever get a 3 LP anything. If one drops, that’s an amazing feeling. If none drops, well, that’s pretty much normal, no frustration as I am not expecting one to begin with.
Again, no offense meant to your post, just offering a different point of view.
Thanks for your response. It was courteous and reasoned.
I can see your point of view, but the game has moved on from 0.8 idea of rarity: A couple of examples to show this are:
Very regular linking in Global of 3LP/4LP very well rolled items (as well as the bricks)
The vast majority of Build Planners you see on LE Tools have significant (sometimes more than 50%) of you item slots in very high LP items or very rare items (e.g. Omni’s, Red Rings, Bastion of Honor) required for the build.
Similiar to 2) above but the video’s on YT also have an expectation of high LP items
These create an environment of “need” as well as "want I grant you. It’s just to show that the expectation is a very common one.
If my suggestion won’t work then that’s fine, maybe another will work. My point was that the status quo will hurt the game going forward through player retention unless a change is made to reduce the outcome result v effort.
I think if I came back, I would make some self-imposed rule to run either run LP0 uniques where reqd on builds and just suffer the performance ceiling earlier in corruption than engage with the Eternal Cache in its current form.
Very true, and in large part responsible for the enormous powercreep we are seeing.
I don’t like it, but it is what it is, sadly I can’t go back to 2022 even if I liked the game better back then!
Especially annoying to me:
I hate it.
Uniques should be just what it says on the can, “unique”. One or two for each build to enable special mechanics, and that’s it.
Having them in every single slot is just silly. But once again, sadly, I can’t go back in time.
Thanks for the chat, see you around.
PS: self imposed rules are fun. That’s what I tend to do these days.
I would argue that you have plenty to show for this. I’ve got a LOT of time in this game. I’ve never even seen a 3LP Titan Heart. And while you didn’t get the massively perfect roll on it, a 3 LP Titan Heart with three Xtra affixes on it is nothing to sneeze at.
I do not recall where I read it or heard it, might’ve been on one of my Mike’s streams or somewhere else but I do not think the working target for a successful build in LE Dev terms is having stuff like this. I dropped my first Omni’s last week. I’ve been playing since Alpha. (arguably Omni’s hasn’t been part of it that long…). The extra LP stuff at such high level, isn’t what should make a build function, in LE Devs eyes. Also many build guides list the ‘dream’ setup, but often times even the player making the guide won’t have most of those items.
I agree with Houlala about wishing more content creators listed the realistic expectations of a build and some actually do, the good one’s do at least. They’ll flat up tell you, that the chase items for a build aren’t needed to make it function as ‘successful.’
All that said, the Eternity Cache stuff does need some minor tweaks to it - personally I find it more irritating that you have to run through the entire dungeon every time just for one chance - and I’ve seen lots of suggestions, even made some, about ways to reduce the RNG levels of the system. I guess time will tell.
But what if these three extra affixes happen to be collectively worse than the 1 exalted affix on a 1 LP titan heart? It’s a nice collector item I guess, but it is far from useful.
I definitely agree with OP that the eternity cache needs some sort of rework. The dungeon is boring, and the coinflip has a very decent chance of bricking the result of hours upon hours of farming just because the game feels like it.
Personally, that is the reason I have not logged in the last couple of weeks.
I did a dungeon session, crafting the various LP items I had accrued over the past weeks and that I though would be interesting to craft. I had around 10 of them, failed every single one.
I have a very pretty graveyard tab now, but my character did not get any stronger.
From the point of view of gear progression, the drops that I fed to the eternity cache were completely wasted, and by extension, the time spent getting them was also a waste of time.
So I just called it a day, and moved to other games for a while.
Required or aspirational? I could do a build that had 4xt7 in every slot but that wouldn’t mean that they would be required. I’d be quite surprised if there were many builds that didn’t function without those 3/4 LP legendaries. Functioning better is fine & a very different kettle of fish.
Streamers often feature exceptionally good gear that is out of reach of most mortals.
I recall the days when LE crafting first became a thing, and people complained that getting a T20 rare was impossible. The response was, as you might have guessed, the same as it is here: “You don’t need full T20 items”. Well, here we are, 4 or 5 years later, and T20 rares are pretty much the entry level gear to begin the end game.
The “you don’t need” defense is old, and stale. You don’t need quite a lot of things in this game, yet most of them are actually obtainable, without having to invest 1000s (or possibly 10s of 1000s) of hours to obtain them.
LP was introduced, because so many Unique items were absolute crap, when compared to decent+ rolled rares…where players were equipping them for a single effect, and the gear slot was a waste otherwise. It wasn’t introduced as a means to create chase items, that would rival Wile E Coyote’s chase for the Roadrunner. That, unfortunately, appears to be a side-effect that has fueled this draconian mindset to justify how annoying their acquisition can be.
Maybe for that build. But lots of people make lots of different build. Hell, let it inspire you too create something that it does work with. A 3lp titan heart with affixes is easily usable for just the DR alone that you can’t get on any other basic chest piece.
That’s true, and it was a noble goal. Good intentions, just like the ones paving the road to hell.
Now we have reached the other end of the spectrum: people try and equip ONLY 3 or 4 LP legendaries, in every slot, even if the unique’s special power doesn’t match their build at all, because it will always be better than a boring old tier 22 exalted…
With a double backlash: frustration for the chaser, and massive powercreep, again.
I think the best solution would be to limit LP to 2.
That would still make the uniques you NEED for your build’s mechanics more useful in their slot, without making legendaries desirable in every single slot.
Not going to happen, I know, but I would love it if it did… One can dream.
Respectfully, it doesn’t always work like that. Many playstyles are enabled at +3 or +4 to your main skill. The most popular one is probably Frost Claw. On the frostbite version, you can’t take key nodes without at least a T6 Frost Claw affix.
The cheapest T6 is 20M in Cycle. T7 is 200-300M. And I do not think these prices are inflated. IMO they quite accurately reflect the rarity. These affixes basically do not exist. I got 60h on my runemaster and I haven’t seen even a T1. Dropping an exalt happens once per hundreds of hours.
So 300M (or hundreds of hours) for a 50% chance at a slam on a 2LP Heart (same value). Possibly thousands of hours. Show me another aRPG that demands this for a build enabler.
Before someone replies about my expectations, please, don’t, My expectations are the same as in all other aRPGs. And they have not been met in LE.
Its good that the topic got some discussion from various people. I hope some of the decision makers at EHG may even spend a few mins reading the gist of the opening post. I was just telling my story of the game, its neither right or wrong. I think others have felt it as well.
Thanks to the others that added to discussion, whatever your views.
With so many people claiming to have failed repeatedly to slam the desired affix on a 2LP+ items, is there a chance that slam is actually weighted to favour modifiers of lesser tier, or at least favour non-exalted mods?
I mean they have the same dogshit mechanic for Rune of Removal, and it is not stated in the description, so it is safe to assume the possibility of weighting on LP slams to exist as well.
Also, with so many complaints about this issue (there’s not a single day without a new thread on Legendaries, on an otherwise dead forum) maybe they should consider removing the LP mechanic, and buff/rebalance uniques, and adjust their rarity to make some of uniques into so called “chase items”?
We’ll just agree to disagree here. I think this comes down more to choice of play then a flaw in an item. Or perhaps a flaw with the design of a skill that only works if you have a +3 affix to something or it’s ‘dead’. Still not a waste of that item because many other builds DON’T require that sort of necessity and are still HIGHLY playable and fun.
But this how I see it. You don’t. Back to playing!
I think this has come up before as a question and the general consensus was it isn’t. That said, I don’t know if we’ve gotten a Dev confirmation on that so at this stage we might not definitively know. Someone else will probably have a quote to verify it maybe. I checked Andrew’s Unofficial Road Map thread to see if anything was listed but didn’t see anything in a quick half dozen word searches.
Also, if this IS in there, I would 100% advocate that it be removed ASAP, because that would royally suck.
Yeah, I don’t think so either. It’s just that people don’t come here to post when they get the slam they were after, and usually don’t try multiple times, looking for it to fail.
“Yeah, I just wanted to come here and talk about how I slammed +skill mod successfully, 3 straight times. Then, on the 4th, it failed! Don’t ask me why I slammed it multiple times, after succeeding, I just wanted to find something to post about!”
That’s actually not a bad solution. I think the problem with the system is that it’s in-place, but basically a pipe dream to most. That, and build guides recommending them, and/or streamers using hacked items in their videos. LP was a Pandora’s Box, when you think about it. Once they announced Uniques with 4LP, they became the goal. But it was never announced that the goal wasn’t really meant to be obtained, so people are a bit pissy about it.
If some people post screenshots of their account numbers, reaching in the multiple Millions, should everyone expect to have multiple million $US on their account?
Just because some people have these items, or that some people theorize with said items, doesn’t mean they should be common/guaranteed after X hours of play.
Expectations are a path to misery, since some of them will inevitably not be fulfilled.
This keeps coming up and I’m not inclined to just say temper your expectations, this is how ARPGs are, etc. I still believe that, but it’s obvious there’s degrees to such statements.
The “build enabling” aspect is strictly the T6 Frost claw affix. That’s it. Twisted heart is there to boost your survivability. But you can and should run with the relic with frost claw affix. There are many build enabling affixes, but rarely are there item slots with both build enabling affixes AND build enabling uniques required.
Also about builds, build planners often put in 4 LP items so that people know which affixes to go after when crafting the exalted item. No one in their right mind would expect a 4 LP red ring to be a requirement. Just that if you have an LP red ring, these are the affixes you should go after.
I personally think the legendary system is awesome. It was a genius idea. However, they need to iterate upon it. I fully expect them to touch up on the system to make it less punishing and still feel rewarding. I think the biggest problem is the finality of it. Meaning, once you slam then the item is done. There’s no LP or forging potential. You get what you get. This is the lowest hanging fruit they can iterate on. It would be nice if the affixes don’t disappear. Make the LP determine how many affixes can be active and let us retry which affixes become active with another layer of crafting. I’m fine if the process is difficult, whether the process is hard or the ingredients to slam again is hard.
