Not if it is automated. There is 0 social interaction by browsing an Auction House, searching for an item, and clicking “Buyout” (for example.)
Also, I could even automate “manual” (i.e. “chat”) trading with the right UI design. For example:
I post a link to my item in chat
Other players can click to see item, and a “Bid” or “Buy” button appears in the UI, which they click.
Item then is removed from my inventory and placed into theirs automatically.
Not one shred of “Hi” and “thx” to be seen.
If you define “Social interaction” as “Hi” and “thx gl” then you are socially inept (and really, a metric ton of younger people are 100% socially inept. This is a fact.)
A system can be designed where you can trade gear but not any form of “currency”. That would, in essence, negate a “trade economy”, and IMHO would be fine to me.
My two rules are:
no economy
no nerf to my SSF Drop Rates
Anything which satisfies both of those is A-OK to me.
Yeah, I agree. That’s why I literally spoke about forum and chat and not about an auction house.
Yeah. You could do that - maybe. But then it’s not the system I talked about and therefore doesn’t disapprove my comment.
It’s like I’m saying: Look, this car is black." And you say “But not if I would paint it white.” I think your right but it doesn’t really speak against the first sentence.
Only way this is possible is with self found loot. Anything else creates an economy whether it is a big one or a small one. (even trading with friends in a party or instanced loot or guild only loot is an economy)
No nerf to your SSF drop rates is only possible if loot is self found I think. If they allow party members to share loot they are getting 4 times as many chances to find what they want compared to you playing SSF. I think you are in the same boat as me. No trading at all whatsoever is the only solution.
Wrong. If they allow trading they will balance loot around it. They have to. See all the other posts in this discussion about it. This means MY loot will be worse if I play only SSF. If there is trading and I do not trade I will not be as efficient as someone that is selling gear and using that to buy new gear. If they allow parties to share items, they have an advantage over SSF player. You would have 4 times the chance to get a unique item that you want or need if your playing with people and sharing loot. Either way it does affect someone playing solo.
Also I do not want to play solo. I want to play with friends. I just do not want to be forced to play the economy or AH game instead of just killing monsters.
This is always the case and intentional because that#s what SSF is for O.o. I know no game where a dev said “SSF yields better and more loot because reasons!”. People who claim this kind of stuff made me google like a maniac to find proof of concept. If you have any valid info for this please share it with me I’m realy intrested in what game the SSF “challange” was intentionaly made easier when you can opt out of it at any given time.
Yes but even people who don’t play SSF have said advantage over SSF players.
Yeah and I want to kill monsters with the option to give a pal I play with an item he needs. i don’t trade with random people or in large scale that often aka 1 PoE league in a blue moon.
Other peoples loot isn’t affecting me and never did outside of unbalanced PvP enviourments. How is it affecting you if you play with someone who has great equip? There is no label on gear if it is bought or dropped :).
He didn’t say he wanted solo/ssf to be easier, he said he didn’t want the loot drops to be worse than what we have now.
Again, that’s not what he said or meant. What he said/meant was that in an environment with trade the loot drops must be balanced around the assumption that people will be trading since that enables them to take advantage of other players drops in addition to their own. Look at what happened in D3, at launch the drops were aweful because of the presence of the AH. Then when they got rid of the AH and implemented “loot 2.0” they massively buffed the loot drops.
I am pretty sure Orbital is talking about a potential loot rebalance, once trading is implemented.
So basically by just enabling trade it will diminish the loot of solo players, if loot is not balance separately for solo and trade environments.
The crux of this issue is, that items will become more easily accessible once trade is there, because there are more people finding it and not needing or wanting it. So without changing the actual drop chance for items, they will naturally become more common and more easily acquirable.
This can invalidate the prestige of some of these items, which in my opinion is important for some items.
Its a tough one and there is no solution to make everybody happy.
Intelligent loot in D3 or loot 2.0 wasn’t tied to the AH at least google isn’t showing anything along those lines. The loot was buffed because it was crappy before and people vented in the forums because dropping int based items on a str based class was ass. The buff to drop rates was implemented to make it easier to get loot overall. With the changes in D3 noone needed trade anymore and neither play the game for long. It’s like 1-3 days in a season to get ancient legendarys… i REALY hope noone will condier D3 as an example of how things should work if there is trade or not :D.
We don’t even know if there will be trade or how it will be and everyone is talking about unlaid eggs so far.
Trade dimishes loot for everyone to a certain extent but that’s what trade is for in the big picture. Farm enough curency to buy what you like. Again I think it’s fair game to farm an item and it drops or to farm currency to buy said item.
I never traded that much maybe that’s why I have a different point of view but at the end of the day I would be happy if I can freely trade items with the friends I play with regulary even without getting something back. Just here take this be happy let’s move on! Call it donating or whatever I just want to be able to trade in the rather small space I play in and with.
I’m a bit late to this thread but yeah, that is my main concern Heavy. I really don’t want loot drops to become so low that I have to trade for the items I need(looking at you PoE). I have 4K hours in PoE and I don’t remember ever finding any of the high-end gear in that game. I only get excited for exalt drops, so I can buy the gear I need.
Hopefully LE follows more closely to the way D3 did trading, but tweaks it to allow short term Guild trading or something similar. D3 loot is way too far at the other end of the spectrum and drop chances do need lowering but I do like it that you can find all the gear for the build want you want to play, albeit way to quickly.
A full blown trade economy is not something I’d like to see in LE, for many of the reasons already stated above in the thread.
I am not sure if you understand the main point a lot of people have concerns about.
There are players like me (and possibly Orbital judging from a few posts they did), that do not want to play in a trade-enabled environment.
At the end I don’t care if there is trade or how trade will look like (I will never personally use trade in a loot driven game).
But any potential changes to drop rates or other forms of loot acquisition, that will be caused by implementing trade will have an impact on my gameplay experience.
If there is any ability at all to drop something on the ground that you want to “gift” to a “friend”, outside of limited time game instance gifting, that will be abused instantly!
Same with any type of trade window for anything of value, consumable or otherwise, where there is not a very limited and restricted window of time and no ability to positively identify what gamer ID you are trading with.
Yes, it was crap before because of the AH. When they scrapped the AH they then *had *to buff loot drops significantly. Could you imagine what it would have been like with the low amounts of drops from before they buffed it but no AH?
If you don’t have restrictions to it then yes. As I said above… Trading groups for X players. You need to be in said group for 7 days to freely trade within the group. If you leave the trade group for whatever heartbreaking reason you get a 7 day CD untill you can join another trading group and everything begins from start.
I’m pretty sure this will make RMT not worth the effort and more easy to get cought. Give said groups a name fitting the lore aka guild, adventurer group or whatnot and you have the opportunity to freely trade for those who want to and noone else is bothered with it.
Not the best solution, not killing RMT as much as “no trade at all!” outside of carries and leveling services but at least it has no downsides to anyone. If you make said trading groups per char and not per account things will be even easier when it comes to the ammount of items traded or equipping new toons to the teeth at least if it’s implemented arround the first visit to End of Times.
It’s just not as black and white as you picture it I think but then again… yeah humans are explotive and will most likely always use the easiest way.
Either trading is non-existant / too restrictive to be a viable means of getting anything (thus no economy and your drops matter a lot) OR it is useful enough that it becomes viable(at which point lots of people would use it and create an economy, where drops for your build matter less as you could get a good piece from the market instead)
While some market setups would be better then others, the issue that is here is that it is impossible to create a market that actually works without it affecting how people handle loot drops.
