Just saying, Point 4. and 5. are against ToS, even on the offline client.
When buying a game you agreed to a contract that even applies to this offline client.
EHG generally is pretty lenient with this, as its very difficult to prove people breaching this and usually it doesn’t have a great effect.
But techically speaking you just confessed a breach of ToS in your Point No. 4
All of your points are also not features and just advantages due to technical reasons.
Yeah not so much. Support was advised I would be making modifications to my save folder, backing it up, deleting files and restoring them during troubleshooting and remediation. They raised no concerns regarding TOS violations and just told me to let them know how it went. Working to fix a bug is not a violation of the TOS, and if it is, that’s a problem with the TOS, not the actions in question.
As to the rest of it, the guy testing the builds or offline mods in general, well, I’ll let the devs speak for themselves:
Continuing the discussion from Is Mod support or steam workshop support planned?:
Edit: also a feature is a ‘distinctive attribute or aspect of something’. So yeah, they’re features.
And you think that them monitoring your pc to check what you’re doing with the fully offline client may not potentially breach data protection or privacy laws? And even if it doesn’t (I have no idea, not a lawyer), it’s, IMO, a masdive moral breach.
Well backing up, copying and/or renaming files is not really “modifying” files.
Also if you do it togehter with the official EHG support its a whole other story.
And as I said EHG is very lenient with it anyway.
What you describe now is also somethign very different from other stuff you could do by tinkering with the save files.
Still modifying files would be against ToS and you could expect EHG to take actions against people doing so.
Restrictions and Limitations.
Eleventh Hour Games may suspend or revoke the License, or parts, components, and/or single features thereof, if You violate, or assist others in violating, the license limitations set for under these Terms of Use. You agree that You will not, in whole, in part, or under any circumstances, do the following: […] (ii) modify or adapt (including through third parties and third party tools) the game client or its data, other than in the normal course of Last Epoch gameplay as permitted in accordance with the License; […]
The quote you posted from Sarno is over 4 years old and does very likely not reflect their current stance on such things anymore.
I never claimed that they do that or even want to do that.
But just because they don’t monitor that they can still make the rules how you use that digital product.
And I know people that publically admitted doing game file modification and received consequences for that.
Sure, but the TOS you quoted is from 2019, meaning the quote is more recent than that. And here’s Mike in 2021:
Continuing the discussion from Developer Let's Play with Q&A - Transcribed [April 2nd Stream]:
This is the data which is most readily available when searching for their position on mods; if you have something which is actually more recent and which is reflective of a different stance, you’re welcome to share it. Until then, it’s odd to complain about the age of something and then reference something even older to support your argument, given that typically agreements can be superceded by subsequent mutual agreement between parties.
And yeah, backing up your saves, deleting them, renaming them, and otherwise taking actions to correct file corruption is fundamentally different from modifying the contents of the game files to replace visual effects or otherwise mod the game, or from modifying the contents of your save files to edit the items, stats, or characteristics contained within. That’s why it’s two different items.
No, the ToS is quoted is the current ToS on Steam.
It might have not changed since 2019.
But a written down ToS on a official platform is definitely better than a comment of a dev in a forum.
Everything devs state on platforms such as forums are plans and are subjective to change.
A ToS written down is very much more “official”
I’m sure it is and/or started out that way - They wouldn’t have done it otherwise. But the benefit to them is going to be marginal and the amount of time and effort it takes to continue delivering, no matter how good they are, is going to be considerable. I feel confident in saying that it will be, if it isn’t already, an ongoing source of the word “god damnit” passing their lips.
Arguably, but it’s not wrong.
Nope. Just like @Heavy said - Benefit, yes. But absolutely not something I would call an actual feature.
My only concern is that offline ppl will, let us say, hex edit for old times sake, their way into pinnacle boss victory. I think seeing live / online footage will be a lot more healthy for the game.
It is effective as of April 2nd, 2019.
https://lastepoch.com/legal
Three things:
At the end of the day, it’s not about what is in the ToS. It’s about what EHG does and does not consider acceptable, and thus when they are likely to take enforcement actions on their side. Technically having a buddy over and letting them touch your mouse and keyboard and try out a character is a violation of the ToS, you know. But the likelihood is that the concerns EHG has in regards to other entities accessing your account are related to legal liability and account sales, and they’re not going to permaban you for letting someone try out a character for 5 minutes. Given that all enforcement actions are at their sole discretion and for any reason whatsoever, that’s what matters. Not what is and isn’t legally binding within the ToS, but what they’re going to do in the event of a given course of action.
And, unless the devs are lying regarding being totally ok with offline mods, I think that’s been made pretty clear.
Yes but there is a reason ToS often times wont stand up in court for many reasons(Not that this ToS would fail to protect them)
But reality is, ToS is almost always simply made as tight as possible just for a “incase” situation.
There is so much shit that is against ToS on so much software/programs that everyone and their mom ignores.
I honestly wouldnt take any ToS seriously especially when it comes to an offline product. ToS is just a good way for companies to be like “think twice about doing this” Which tbh many people do think twice. And continue anyways, and EHG goes “Very good, this case is okay we will be fine” or “No, thats not okay, we are not fine we will now enforce the ToS and revoke your access to the service”
This comment section is absolutely wild LMAO.
The sense of entitlement is way too high.
Theres obviously going to be a race, and they obviously want it to be fair.
It’s only a week at maximum. You’re still getting content updates for your “offline” mode for a game you already paid for. Be thankful!
So wait your turn and then you can kill the boss on whatever babymode you play on!
In the third chart you present the only # rounded to 0 decimals in the entire presentation as the final choice, but the pie chart doesn’t foot. 39+38.9+22.2 = 100.1%. That 39% is actually a 38.9%, you rounded for presentation. At least make the chart foot if you’re going to try and manipulate the visuals. Rookie move.
All this discussion show only one thing, despite the vote are 70% favorable to the delay, in this comment section seems that the result are reversed at least, with almost everyone complain for that, it’s really true that the silent majority isn’t loud, and that the minority keeps jelling, I hope the devs know that and can make in the future the right decisions not being disguised by these people, or at least continue with this survey
I guess you didn’t look at the numbers in the survey then if you think that ~30 odd people are the “quiet majority” while 5-10k are the “vocal minority”.
Thankful for what? Giving me what I paid for? EHG is a company and a company tries to make as much money as possible and that is the #1 primary goal of a company, money. Yes, you are indeed very much entitled to receive what you spent money on, that is how the world works, that’s called a “service”, you give money and then you receive service.
Entitlement is not a negative thing and the silver bullet against every argument, because you are entitled to many things
This is very dishonest towards EHG.
While EHG does want to make money and grow, this is not their primary goal.
If that would have been the primary goal they would have done many many decisions in the past very differently.
Their primary goal always was to deliver the best arpg possible.
EHG has made many decisions based on community feedback.
Some decisions however they also did despite community feedback.
But regardless if you are a longtime follower of the game or relatively new.
I don’t know how one could think that EHG is giving you the feeling to make the most money possible.
They waited years until they released their MTX shop. It was released in the last update before 1.0 (0.9.2) in a very minimal version to receive feedback.
They received feedback and adjusted. Now they are slowly rolling out more things.
If they would want to make as much moeny as possible they would have released MTX for as muc hthigns as possible as fast as possible. Which they didn’t.
They would never made so good looking 3D models, to incentivice MTX purchases.
They would not implement transmogrification as a baseline feature and would put it behind MTX.
What are you even ranting about?
You either bought the game in early access or on release.
If you haven’t realized… The game is already a completed product and they could charge for any content updates they do from here on out and call it DLC.
But instead you’re getting the content for free and you’re here complaining about waiting 1 week at maximum.
Unfortunately I can’t write it out with crayons for you… but feeling entitled to something that you didn’t pay for or earn is where the negative connotation comes from!
What you have posted here is called “Entitlement” and unfortunately you are wrong 
In case you forgot, here is what you bought and received already!
Buying Last Epoch through Steam gets you the Ardent Gladiator Supporter Pack:
Last Epoch full release was on February 21, 2024!
Entitled!
Meanwhile you’re getting some content for free and not paying
Better yet offline mode might be where you belong! LOL