I still vote that the answer here is to make the Campaign more dynamic (and maybe include a difficulty modifier to increase mob density) rather than to offer a Skip To The End option.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
End-game is the game to me, as it is in every ARPG I ever played. The campaign is a nuisance/tutorial that gets in the way of the endgame. Occasionally, if the campaign is very good (Grim Dawn), I can tolerate it. Any char I make that I end up liking enough to push far will end up spending 95% of its life in end-game and 5% in the campaign. So I do not see how skipping the campaign constitutes “not playing the game”.
Once more with feeling… this has nothing whatsoever to do with performance. It’s about creativity, experimentation and user satisfaction.
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I’m in the same boat as you, but I’m more firmly in the boat; give me an alternate leveling option. I’m not looking to skip right to the end, but, as someone else said, it would be awesome if they also implemented a system like Marvel Heroes (I think that was the name) where each additional char gets a level exp boost per max level characters you have.
I have zero faith that any game that didn’t start out with a randomly generated campaign can be modified after the fact to make the campaign more dynamic for a reasonable amount of developer effort, so I wouldn’t vote for something that I think is impossible.
And, he doesn’t have to play the entire thing!
Maybe the solution is to just have a Lazy Infant game mode, where they can just go select their level, skills, passives and maybe even gear. And the entire game world is open to them, with an unlimited sliding selector for corruption levels. None of the progress is measured on the ladder, and they are separate from other players in regards to trade/grouping. Only Lazy Infants can group with one another in their private sandbox(es)…
It can basically just be as easy as the devs opening up God Mode, that they probably have to do developer testing, and making it available in a segregated environment.
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Or just play with the character builder like I do half the time.
We do hear this feedback for sure. Dungeons don’t yet function well enough to make leveling up alts more enjoyable and an interesting experience. The bottom tier is just too hard to be a viable options for newer players (or even a lot of veterans) in terms of making the campaign different each time depending on which dungeons you choose. We’re also aware that at some point upgrading gear slows down, but it happens pretty fast to where getting upgrades takes a long time, which feels bad. So there are some curves we gotta smooth out perhaps.
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Glad you finally accept that. I’ve been whinging about Lightless Arbour as a campaign skip since it was introduced.
Wolcen allows players to create a new character leveled to the start of end game, which I what I think he’s asking for. It’s not new. It works. It’s a bold design choice, to be sure. It’s not what I’m asking for.
Why are you being such an infant about what he’s asking for? What is your problem?
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And can we please keep a civil tone when discussing ideas, folks?
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For me the ability to customize my experience is king.
LE currently has 3 options that seem “playable” to me:
- normal campaign
- campaign till you have all the passives and idol slots
- skip with dungeons (haven’t done that yet though - just repeating what I read)
As a comparsion Grim Dawn (just because I know that game well enough). The game has 3 difficulties and for a long time you needed to completed every single one of them (for context):
- Campaign as normal
- Campaign with veteran mode which is harder than the normal campaign but still easier than the second difficulty
- any combination of this since veteran mode can be turned off and on again whenever you feel like it
- Use Merits to unlock all difficulties and start on the second difficulty.
- Use Merits to unlock all difficulties and start on the highest difficulty which is very hard depending on your gear and build but still doable for every class
One reward for the challenge is that quest exp does not scale with player level. So doing a quest in Ultimate power levels you very quickly. - Any combination of difficulties since Merits unlock waypoints so you can go and quickly get your devotion points to power up enough to tackle ultimate difficulty (think of Devotions as an additional skill tree that is not tied to class and level but to stationary challenge shrines sprinkled throughout the campaign)
- Play the alternate gamemode “Crucible” (similiar to the arena from LE). This is separate from the main campaign and can always be accessed. Very nice to test the current power level of a build.
So if I haven’t been blind to additional options LE provides it gives the player just a lot less options to tailor their play experience to their liking.
I personnaly don’t mind the LE campaign since it is short (option 2), but I also don’t really enjoy it. I kinda expect something like this in the ARPG/H&S genre, it’s kind of a staple.
GD just does it better though. The campaign is much longer but it is a lot more customizable and thus more fun to me since the game actually uses the classic difficulty system to enable different ways/approaches to play the game that go beyond the character class.
Well GD also has a lot more content already accessible during the campaign that matter for endgame (reputation, devotions, recipes are probably the big ones) which also helps.
So coming back to my first point: I would love to see more ways to tailor the campaign experience in LE to my liking.
And maybe add things besides shards and slots/passive points that can be relevant for endgame progression.
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Wasn’t this an expansion/DLC though?
On the topic at hand, I doubt any kind of real skip will be available anytime before 1.0, if ever. Being a beta, they probably want people playing as much of the content as possible to get at as many bugs as possible. If everyone skipped the campaign, bugs in the campaign would be much harder to find.
Yeah a 8 bucks or so one. Was the first or second DLC I believe.
Don’t know if that is relevant though. I know the comparison is little bit unfair since GD is finished and all, but I dindn’t meant the post as a “look how much better GD is!” kind of thing. More of a “these are things that could be taken as inspiration for future patches”.
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Because regardless of the narrow definition of “the game” you’ve constructed in your head, the campaign is also the game. The snooty powergamer attitude that anything except max level/end game is not “the real game” is not, and has never been, a reasonable or valid one.
I’m not sure a game that’s been panned for as hard and as long as Wolcen has is good choice of an example to follow or hold up.
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Doesn’t mean it might not be doing some things well/right.
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I agree with the OP. It is one of the biggest reasons I refuse to play POE any longer due to leveling through the story on every single character. Once per season is fine, but then I need “Free Play” mode to level and enjoy the play and not focus on the grind
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That was not my attitude at all. I cited the very simple FACT that (casual players aside) the average character will likely spend 95% of its lifespan in end-game and only 5% in campaign. So the 5% is not really the game, is it? It is the tutorial basically.
Have you played Wolcen recently? I put 500 hours into it a few months ago and it is now excellent. Very very worth playing, and BY FAR the most graphically advanced of the current ARPGs available. It truly looks and feels “next-gen”.
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Wolcen felt extremely “floaty” to me. For some reason the hits didn’t feel great and it was basically acting like I was on a movement delay at all times. Only made it about 3 hours or so into the game before I wanted to play something else due to the feeling.
Here’s my vote: Let EHG be EHG. I’d rather see them come up with new interesting ideas rather than copy from another game (even if those ideas in other games were good).
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What would be unhealthy about allowing those players who have already completed the campaign and don’t want to rerun it to jump straight into the endgame grind? That’s what you already do after you complete the campaign anyway.
I don’t understand why are people so against options. You want to replay the campaign - good, glad you like it and have something fun to do. Oh, you’ve already experienced the story and don’t want to see it again? Well, there you go, jump straight into monoliths and have fun your own way by trying out other builds, which you wouldn’t have otherwise even bothered with.
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The context to that statement was being able to just make a new character at level 60 would be unhealthy for the game. I don’t care if they provide an alternative leveling path. It’s not an “option” if the time investment required is mitigated.
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