No Mastery respec, is bs

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101

Exactly. Like I said, you don’t need it, since you could achieve what you want with a little more effort, and you had 3 options, where you chose the 2nd option of leaving and playing another game. Except that you also chose the 3rd option of complaining incessantly as well.

No, they’re just saying that the level of convenient things you get in the game doesn’t include this one. They’re saying that they don’t want people respeccing masteries because it goes against the vision they have for this game. Why should your convenience/lazyness be more important than the dev’s vision for the game?

Well, that’s on you then, isn’t it? In PoE I always delete older characters, so I always have plenty of space. If you don’t want to delete them and want to pay money to create new characters that’s your option.
Though that option probably will never happen on LE, though I wouldn’t have a problem with it, even if I’d never need to use it. But buying slots with money would be against what they want LE to be.

There’s always 3 sides to every story: yours, mine and the truth (yes, this is a reference).
Ultimately, the dev’s truth. Even if they aren’t a single block, they have reached a consensus and made a decision on the game. So their truth is the one that matters. For now anyway. They might change their mind later on. And if/when they do, that will be the truth that matters.

Ultimately, there is only one valid argument for why there shouldn’t be a mastery respec and that is “Because the devs don’t want it”. And there isn’t any valid argument for having one, unless you can prove that it affects your health. And even then you have the option to simply not play it (like people with seizures have to avoid certain games because they don’t implement accessibility options).

And if/when the devs change their mind and make mastery respec a thing, and when players inevitably come here to complain and ask why we can’t go back to no respec, the only valid argument will remain the same: “Because the devs don’t want it”.

Because this is the devs game. They’re making it for a certain type of player, not to please everyone. If you want that, you can go play D4. So asking for stuff in a demanding or insulting tone isn’t acceptable. The devs don’t have to change a single thing in their game and you either like it and play it or you don’t. The fact that the devs DO listen to their players and that they compromise on things makes no difference. It’s still not acceptable to demand/insult something. Ultimately, if you really really want it that bad, other games have it.

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102

Truth is always truth, what we sometimes perceive as truth is sometimes very different and subjective.

103

That’s actually not true. That is only true when you’re applying it to material facts but not to emotional or social ones. A simple example of this not being true is “Clowns are funny”. This is not an absolute truth, since many people fear clowns and others just don’t find them funny.
Likewise, saying “Having a loot filter is better” isn’t truth is either. For some people, having a loot filter makes the game worse for them.

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104

The main issue for me if a developer won’t give me a ‘advance to max level with BiS gear’ is that they are saying their game time is worth more than my own time.

This argument is subjective based on the person, and how much time they want to spend. Maybe I just want to play 15 minutes, but be max level. Should a developer cater to that, or just your request? Where should they draw the line?

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105

Actually, it is true. The truth is always the truth. Emotional and social is what I was referring to that are subjective. Clowns being funny isn’t a fact of any sort so your example is legitimate but just support the statement about the subjectivity of our perceptions. It doesn’t change the fact of the truth being true, just that sometimes we express our opinions as the truth.

106

Fine, if you want to get technical, then in that case there are many things that have no truth. And this is one of them.

107

I would agree that everything in this thread, as at least almost every other one, is opinion. One person’s opinion doesn’t have to agree with another’s. :sunglasses:

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108

Honestly you are the first person that actually makes a point about how this change actually might affect them. If the feature affects people I am more than haopy to discuss pros and cons but none of the others have offer anything like it.

I completely get your point about racing and changing masteries and personally that is not something I have look into. Are there different leaderboards for each mastery? A simple solution would be if you respec your mastery you are out of the leaderboards, big red letter you are forfeiting your place there. Would that make you look the feature with better eyes?

109

The whole point is that a feature doesn’t have to affect anyone as a reason for it to be implemented or not. Many are just a part of a game’s identity. I once again point you towards Dark Souls games. They have no maps, no quest trackers, no handy QoL features. And there were always many players that asked for them.

Now, how would it hurt anyone having a map in DS? It wouldn’t. At all. They could just ignore the map and not use it. However, it would detract from the identity of the game FromSoftware wants to make. Many, many players have asked for it over the years and FS simply refuses to do it. And I’d wager that if they released DS4 with a map and quest trackers, most of the crowd that played the previous DS games and have stayed faithful to FS would leave (like many left Elden Ring, which obviously isn’t targetted at the same type of player).

Not having mastery respec, along with not having shards autopickup/autotransfer, FP being random in how much it spends, etc, are all part of LE’s identity. What the game wants to be and the type of player it wants playing it. Changing any of those would change that identity. It would change the feeling of playing the game. It doesn’t need to affect anyone. It just has to change how the game feels, like with DS.

There are many other options out there. LE is carving a unique niche that is appealing to a certain type of player. If they become too identical to other games because another type of player wants it to, what’s to stop players from playing those other games instead?

That’s not to say that a game identity can’t change over time (like PoE’s did) and that mastery respec won’t be a thing in the future, or any of the other features. But they don’t actually need a reason to do so (or not) and whether or not if affects someone. Players just have to evaluate LE for what it is and decide if it’s the game for them or not.

110

Why are you trying to solve a non-existent problem though? The point i made is connected to identity of the character, your change removes that for me. Neither of our takes are objectively correct, but luckily for me ehg like the character identity angle as well.

The further point was simply that you not being able to think of negatives, doesnt mean they arent there.

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111

Campaign is short, endgame is after about, hm, 12 hours in the game even for a lame old **** like me.

Makes mastery switch pretty redundant.

112

Yeah, I know, I watched B5 as well.

That is most definitely a big stretch.

113

Actually, the reference I was referring to is a little older, by about 3-4 years.

Yes, that was my point.

The fact is that there are many things that don’t really affect you or that would feel better for many players, namely the shard autopickup. But it would affect the devs and how they view/present their game. Games don’t have to to try and please everyone, even though D4 tries (and fails miserably). Games just have to have their identity. And some players will like that identity and play and other won’t like it and play something else.

If mastery respec was a thing, there would probably be players that didn’t like that and would play something else. Maybe more would come to play. I don’t know. But the only real reason to have it or not is whether the devs feel like it belongs in their game or not. There is no other argument that is valid.

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114

I know you’re being academic here, but it’s not debatable that nobody needs Mastery respec. Some want it, but it is absolutely not a need.

115

I’m always so confused by posts like this, cause like, if you can respec literally everything about your character it stops being special.

You can respec all of your abilities, passives, and regear for entirely different builds. Having masteries be that one major investment you make is 100% solid design to me.

To me this is a non-issue, and it would upset more people than it would satisfy if they allowed you to respec your masteries, too.

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116

While i get your point about “options” and in many cases when we would’ve a debate about something, i would even go with you. For “most” cases more options are always better, and it rarely effects someone in a negative way. But the thing is, there is stuff / options which can effect people in a negative way.

To get my point across here a few examples: Like imagine a Godmode(<-atleast for games like LE), having enough skillspoints to max everything out, broken op items etc. Nobody is “forced” to use it, people can ignore it, but it can ruin the game in the long run for a lot of people.

And this is also one of these things! And it’s not an matter of people might or might not use it. It’s not about people doesn’t have enough selfcontrol to not use it, it’s just the fact that this Option even exist, can ruin it. Because if we talk about “meaningfull choices” (or Character Identity) and so on, it’s a matter of impact. But if you can change your choice “on the fly” - how much impact does it genunly have?

Like - to give you another example: Imagine a story-driven game which promotes itself with choices/dialogchoices…which heavily impacts the story but especially the outcome/end; but in reality in always ends the same, and the choices only changed a bit of flavour text and such. If you play it the first time and you don’t know that, you still can have a great experience with and make it feel that it is your own unique journey. But once you find out / know that choices you made doesn’t really matter but only changed the tone of dialogues a bit, it can potentially ruin your experience, even if you had a blast because it takes away from the impact you initially had.
And it’s similiar to this. You’ve like only 2 real choices, which are even linked together (because again i’d argue the mastery is basically picking your real class/expanded base-class-starterchoice… esp. considering how early you get it), if you take that away because you can respec that, it will take away from the experience and effect it negatively. So in a way you could say - your option isn’t a real option, because it effects negatively parts of the playerbase anyway…

Maybe / maybe not… the only thing i know that my PoE Friends always speak about how hardcore respeccing in PoE is (and from my past experience i’ve to agree on that) and that most newcomers should rather look into a build-calculator to not waste any points. Maybe they changed it “recently” and nowdays it’s not as bad anymore as back in the day… → my problem is normally i would take people their word for it, but you are sometimes pretty dismissive/twisting with the way you argue, i wouldn’t geniunly trust you on this because you rather try to win an argument, instead of having a honest and neutral conversation.

117

Avoiding double negatives would help a lot with that.

Do I need to talk about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs here. TLDR, maybe they do, or feel that they do…

No, it’s the same. Maybe cheaper if the league drops more currency so the price drops.

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118

Once something like the “quality of life” feature that is being requested is implemented, it then has a chance of becoming the standard way to play, just like wide open trade vs MG. This fundementally changes the game and leads to the tail wagging the dog rather than the devs continuing to focus on the vision they have for the game and then delivering on that vision. For reference see all the changes made to d4 after launch that are turning it into just a newer vetsion of d3.

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120

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121

Bought the game today. Sooooo glad I found this thread! Just refunded. :slight_smile: Stupid design choice and too many fanbois in here defending a bad design. Bye!