There are plenty of master carpenters who have not tried certain aspects of woodworking before. Part of Mastery is just having the overall general knowledge to be able to apply it to unfamiliar aspects as well. As you said, Messi is a master soocer player, do you think he’s a great goalie as well? How about Ronaldo, Maradona or Ronadlinho? All masters at scoring, but what about goalkeeping? Does that make them any less masters?
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Ok, we should stop derailing this subject. All I meant is that simply putting in time doesn’t make you a master. You can still suck or just be average at a craft even if you spend your whole life doing it. Maybe because you don’t have that talent or because you don’t have the required skill. There are lots of (very) minor leagues all over the world in (very) minor championships that have played football (not soccer 
) all their lives and no one would ever call them masters.
But our discussion is becoming irrelevant to this thread so maybe we should either start discussing it privately or just agree to disagree 
You are skipping the part where I explain that the 3 masteries have a common root and you can even put points into trees of other masteries. So there is a strong link between them and that makes it more natural to be able to switch between them. You dont have that between different classes, do you? So to me that is a big difference.
If you want to compare how many games let you change classes vs how many let you change masteries or specs be my guest, but I can guess the result would tell you the second one is more common.
My comment about not using the feature is bc people against it speak like they would lose their ability to keep their characters identity while in reality you can keep playing as you were without losing anything.
As an example, when i reach maps in poe, it might be faster to level up a new char than to farm the regret orbs needed to switch, would I relevel a new char, hell no. Would other ppl do it, probably, it depends on what you value more. So both aproaches can coexist, is not always your way or my way or you are ruining the game for me.
9 years is ~ 3.3k days, as long as you played an average of ~3 hours a day *for 9 entire years straight, you’d have hit (ish) 10k hours.
Can’t remember at this point, I think I’m just doing it for the trolls, to be argumentative something?
I think that particular horse has bolted, found a nice couple of female horses to have little baby horses with, seen them grow up to become happy well adjusted horses & been taken to the glue factory to become catfood & some Findus Foods burgers for Tescos. And glue, obviously.
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Considering that there are WAY more games that have classes without sub-classes/masteries than there are games with them, I seriously doubt that.
Just because you aren’t obligated to use an option that cheapens (in those players views) an aspect of the game doesn’t mean that it doesn’t cheapen that aspect anyway.
Imagine if you had a system that would give you a reward for reaching 300 corruption. Then imagine that later a new system is introduced where you get the exact same reward but all you need to do is kill 10 mobs. You could ignore it and keep getting that reward with 300 corruption, but it would already be cheapened.
Just because you don’t have to use something doesn’t mean that it doesn’t take something away from the game.
You keep making all those scenarios in your mind instead of discussing the question at hand. We are talking about the masteries. How would it cheapen the experience if it can take even longer to respec than to relevel. What I am asking is for an option. That is it, you like the leveling I like the grinding for the respec, we both agree the other person likes the other thing and we are both happy. Stop being an elitist and think that if someone doesnt enjoy the releveling then that person is a peasant and is dirtying your beautiful character that keeps its identity. This is a QoL change not an attack to your way of life. You keep saying in every of these threads you dont care one way or the other, and then write a million msgs telling people why is not good for you. I though you didnt care so why can we not have it then?
You misunderstood my posts. I actually never defended whether you should or shouldn’t respec. I just discuss the arguments used, nothing else. The rethoric, if you will. Basically I’m playing devil’s advocate. And most of the arguments used, ON BOTH SIDES, aren’t really valid one way or another as to why we SHOULD have or not have a mastery respec.
So far, both sides arguments have always boiled down to “We don’t need it” vs “I’d like to have it” and neither is a compelling argument for the finality of this issue. Which, that being the case, makes the decision fall on the devs alone.
So you are not against or in favour you just like to argue about it. This is a feedback forum, someone asked for QoL, no need to play devils advocate there, is QoL, it doesnt affect you one way or the other (even when you said it would cheapen your experience).
What else is to talk about it, devs said is not coming on 1.0, we leave our feedback hoping for smth better in the future and that is it.
As I mention, what I find rly hard to stand is being told why I dont need that QoL. The devs decision at the end, but I hope that the same crowd dont stay gatekeeping the QoL that other people are asking for. That is the purpose of the forum.
I have to disagree here.
I myself really like to argue with people about how not everything is black/white.
A lot of the feedback or suggestions that are coming in are often like: “Hey the game needs to have this” or “Feature XYZ is bullshit, why is this even a thing” or “You need to implement this asap, there is no reason teh game shouldn’t have it”.
And I really do like trying to show people that it is not always as one-sided as they think it is.
Many people are oblivious to other people playing or enjoying the same game totally differently. And some suggested features making the game worse for other people etc.
But mastery respec is not QOL, that is one of the things that you probably didn’t realized if you still think it is.
Even if you personally think it is, it is somethign that would affect other people or how the game is played/viewed.
Changing the game in a way that it is less time intensive, less punishing or being able to do almsot everythign with one character is not Quality of Life.
Quality of Life is reducing the amount of obscure menues you need to browse to find a certain feature or thing. Or making it more convinient to Invite someone to your party.
Making menues more clear and navigateable.
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I actually never said that, I specifically said:.
Just because I could be fine with either decision doesn’t mean I don’t have a preference. And, most importantly, when someone makes an argument for a point of view, even in a feedback thread, doesn’t mean I can’t disagree with the argument.
It’s like with shards autopickup/autotransfer. I’d like it to happen. Devs said it won’t happen and explained those reasons. That’s enough for me. I would still like it to happen. I know I won’t. So I have 3 choices:
-Accept that and play the game as it is.
-Don’t accept it and play something else.
-Continue to argue incessantly about it.
Of those 3, the last one seems to me to be the least productive, both for me and for the devs. When Mike told me shards won’t be picked up I just said OK and moved on. I hope it will change some day. Maybe. If not, I prefer to just use the 1st option (other can use the 2nd, it’s valid as well).
That is a bad definition of QoL, according to your definition almost nothing is QoL bc without it you would spend more time doing whatever it is. So QoL is a very subjective theme and I dont think you or anyone else have the last saying on it.
I agree that feedback is not always presented in the best way. If you check my posts I dont say, something needs to be this or that way, I dont demand anything. I state what I would like to see on the game. That is my feedback, that would make playing the game a more enjoyable experience.
After that I was told I didnt need it bc it take this or that time to get to the same point and if i dont like to spend that time then I need to go and do research first or play the game in a different way. I dont think that is cool. As you say there is always another side and people that play the game differently and find joy in different things. Some suggestions make the game worse for other ppl and I agree but so far I havent heard how this particular one makes it worse for any of the players. Nothing is taken from you.
As I said, both sides basically use the same argument. “I don’t need/want it” isn’t a valid argument for not having the respec and “I want it” isn’t a valid argument either. If mastery respec was in the game and this whole discussion was to remove it, I would have been arguing for the other side. Just because the arguments presented for change aren’t sufficient either way.
Just because a QoL option exists doesn’t mean it has to be implemented. You just have to look at Dark Souls games to see that. They have almost no QoL and have refused to implement even such simple QoL features as a map. Why? Because the devs feel like it’s better for the game they want.
This is one of those features, along with no autopickup shards, no FP/LP on loot filter, etc. A game can be defined by having QoL features others don’t but it can also be defined by choosing not to have QoL features others do.
Not to mention that the definition of QoL isn’t always clear. For some players, having a pet that picks up your loot is a QoL, for others it’s a feature that detracts value from the game (and for the devs as well, which is why they’re against it). If you made that optional, it would still detract from the game.
While the argument itself is a little presumptuous, it has a certain validity, in a way. You don’t actually need it. There are ways to do what you want, even if it takes more effort and time. What you want is to not have to waste that effort and time.
Given this, and given the fact that the devs have said their take on this as well, you have the same 3 options I had when Mike said shards autopickup won’t happen, like I mentioned before:
-Accept it and play the game as it is.
-Don’t accept it (you feel that you actually need it to have fun, which might be valid) and play another game.
-Complain incessantly about this.
I chose the first one. I’m sure Mike was aware that I would like it and why (since it was already discussed many times before and, as in this issue, always with the same arguments) and I didn’t feel the need to throw around 20 different points of view on the same subject.
You are free to choose any of the 3. But if you choose the third you shouldn’t feel surprised or angry when players will keep arguing back.
It’s really not a big deal. Respec is free and it’s so quick to get to that point. I think Mike answered the why in a recent interview with DM/Ghazzy.
Can I respec into a horse? Better yet, a master horse?
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I did many things in my life for over 10k hours and I only mastered to F up.
I had proffesional training and learned my trade in my teens. Took only a few years and a lot of Alkohol and other stuff to erase all of this from my brain.
I think the only way respeccs would hurt LE is the replayability of the game. In said case there would be less frequent players and the numbers would seem low for players looking into LE. I think ingame there is not a big change if there was respeccs or not. I wouldn’t care because I don’t need them anyway but I wouldn’t care if someone else uses them 7845621469 times back and forth because it don’t diminishes my gaming experience at all.
Sooner or later everyone will end up with a toon 80+ that simply isn’t working as intended at level 1. In most cases a “respecc” won’t make things better but lead to other problems if you don’t drown in gear for all occasions.
Then again for peoplewho have little time on their hands this could be a dealbreaker. Freedom is a hard thing to handle 
.
Subjective, I have got to a few points during playing LE where I wanted to respec as I couldnt stand rerolling again and ive just quit for a few months. I have no intention at that point to play that character any further in its current state so its just going to rot. Namely wanting to respec a lv 100 Necro summoner into a Aura of Decay Lich or making my Shaman a Druid as its better in everyway
Bare in mind you will most likely need to re-collect most/all of your timeline blessings on a re-respec
Probably already suggested it before, as a compromise allow Orobyss from Corruption 200 to occasionally drop a non-tradeable consumable that allows a 1 off respec
The main issue for me is if a developer wont let me respec they are saying their game time is worth more than my own time since no matter how much work I can put in somewhere (ie farming on a lvl 100 character for days) they wont let me bypass other mechanics. Which is what PoE lets you do; farm respec currencies to use yourself if you want to
Pretty sure there is a reasonable character creation limit as well and its not that high, everytime I play PoE now I need to pay $5 to create more slots as my account is completely full of characters I am not deleting but never playing again either
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Then don’t. No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you how you spend your free time or money. Simple as.
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If the point were for people to just make any suggestion they want and have nobody challenge it, Devil’s Advocate or not, this would just be a form that sends an e-mail to EHG with your feedback instead of a discussion forum. “What I want wouldn’t affect you so stop disagreeing/arguing with me” is not valid.
And I agree with @Heavy as well. You are not asking for QoL and calling it that is extremely dishonest. Despite that certain kinds of people have perverted the term into something they can try to use as a thumbscrew any time they’re unhappy, “QoL” is not a simple synonym for “change a thing I don’t like”.
Sometimes the truth is hard.
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Who’s truth though? Yours? His? Mine? The devs (and they aren’t a single block how agree on everything)? Heavy’s? “Truth” is not always objective, sometimes it’s subjective & individual.
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if we could respec mastery, than racing, optimal cycle starts, optimal content pushing, boss kills etc… would start to heavily be associated with what spec you should run when. This would make the game worse for me. Im a vk player, i have around 1k hours on vk, i like to race as a vk player. if i could change between any sentinel thing, thats no longer the case, because if someone wanted to play in an efficient way, they lvl as paladin, then change to vk. They change to the best mastery for the build for monos, for bosses etc…
now you could argue thats not something that effects everyone etc… but then i gesture to the responses to you in here.
Theres always a negative to a change on a system.
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