Not much to say here other then I wish I could get a refund.
There is no way im going to level another witch just to try warlock over necro, your game is not worth it.
If I had known this is how it would be I never would have bought this game years ago, and if I could get a refund I would take it.
1 Like
This is one thing I donât understand, why this is such a big deal. When you level a Barbarian in Diablo, you canât then change that character into a Necromancer, or a Druid. No other game lets you do this that I know of, so why is it a big deal for people with this game?
Why is this a big deal breaker with you? Please help me understand.
11 Likes
So you get mad about this after one years of playing? youâr weird
And leveling is just some hours and could be done really fast with some legendary, you cry for nothing dude
2 Likes
It seems to be a big deal only to people who donât (want to) understand that Mastery = Class. They incorrectly see Mastery as a specialization, instead of their core character choice.
4 Likes
Because in almost every other arpg it takes afraction of the time to get a ne toon to level X. Some people just dislike regrinding early stages of the game and simply want to go ahead inted of back to square one. You know some people see this as a waste of time ^^. If said player played D3 back in the day when the game was bought some frustration with the time it takes to get to emp monos in LE is understandable.
Well I personaly donât care about it but Iâm able to compe up with a lot of explenations why people see this as a deal breaker. The average LE enjoyer or somone who thought this is ok in PoE will never understand this point of view sadly 
.
Its both honestly, your main class choice is still sentinel for example.
if you set out to play âholy trail sentinelâ there is options in both void knight, and paladin, and probably could even convince me there might be some upside/options in forge guard.
Then you further specialize, you cant change either choice.
But this was the norm for most games 10 years ago. More games are allowing you to change your secondary character choice.
I think its crazy that people are crying about what amounts to almost no time in the grand scheme of the game or the genre as a whole.
This is basically saying âWell I dont actually want to play the game, so since I cant have a feature that lets me skip gameplay, id rather just get a refund and not play at all!â
Im a huge critic of QoL and think more QoL is more better, but if this is the hill you die on with all the other leeway they have given to respecing characters? your crazy.
3 Likes
And to be fair, itâs displayed more like a specialisation in-game & comparable to how orther games treat it (& therefore have set expectations).
3 Likes
I think the main issue here is trying to incorrectly compare what LE is aiming for with other ARPGs. Namely D3/D4 where you only need a barbarian character to be able to change to EVERY barbarian build without much issue. Whereas in D2, for example, you had 3 respecs and after that you had to grind to be able to respec again. The most common scenario was that you had a character that was a blizz sorc and another character that was a lightning sorc. You didnât constantly switch them around.
LE is aiming to get the feel back of old-school ARPGs in many things and I think this is one of them. Youâre not supposed to have an acolyte and respec to any acolyte build at a whim. The aim is that you would have a zombie character and a skeleton character.
I think there are basically 2 problems with this issue:
-The first is that you only make the mastery choice at a later stage. If you made it at character creation a lot of the people complaining about it wouldnât. Itâs a matter of perception.
-The second is that EHG has allowed for an easy swap to another build in the same mastery and now people want more and easily swap masteries. Maybe if EHG gives it to them someone else will soon after start asking for a class respec.
I think the aim of LE is to have many characters. Even several of the same mastery. Mastery respec goes against this and people would end up just having 5 characters at level 100 and switching around when they felt like, which is what happens in D3/D4 (when you donât have just 1-2 for the classes you like).
1 Like
I think they also give enough clues that itâs not that a reasonable person can infer that it isnât, though. It did for me, anyway. And anyway, I agree with this:
Different games are different and will necessarily function differently. Some elements within a genre are core to the genre and itâs reasonable to expect some similarity, but this is absolutely not one of those elements.
I think the aim is that at least some choices you make should matter. If your character is just a nearly total amorphous blob that can be anything it wants to be on a whim, thatâs silly. This weird expectation some have of being able to flop around to try anything and everything with the most bare minimum of time invested possible is also silly.
I agree with this too. This is a very dumb hill to die on, but it honestly also sounds like OP doesnât even like the game to begin with, so if they need to climb up a dumb hill to be able to see that theyâre not actually having fun so they can move on to something they do have fun with, theyâre probably better off.
Not sure why ppl keep comparing it to Diablo instead of PoE in their answers. In PoE you also select your class that can not be changed and then ascend to the specialization. This specialization can be changed by running the lab again whenever you want. In both cases PoE and LE you have a main class with three specializations so I think that is a better comparison.
Coming from PoE I also expected to be able to change specialization at some cost. Ofc all the games are not the same and dont need to do the same things but seeing so many similarities I was expecting this one as well.
My main point in favor of being able to switch specializations is the fact that time during a cycle is not that long so it will restrict how much I can experiment if I am locked into one spec per character.
I hear that is important that choices matter but your class choice would still matter, you can not change that. In my opinion being able to change specs inside the class would be a good thing and I dont understand why anyone would be against having more options.
Is this enough to make me want to refund the game: no. Is it a change I would like to see implemented, for sure.
2 Likes
Fine, if you want to get technical, then the LE passive tree is most similar to Grim Dawnâs. And you canât respec those either.
The time required to reach the mastery choice is a couple hours at most. The time required to reach level 80ish is 2-3 days. If you canât spare 2-3 days among 120, then maybe you should plan what you want to do ahead of time instead, so you already choose the proper mastery.
To be clear, as Iâve already mentioned in (yet) another thread about this same issue (since people keep opening new threads instead of using the existing ones because searching is hard):
I donât really care whether or not we have mastery respec. Even if we do, I donât really plan on using it because I actually enjoy leveling characters and watching them grow into the build, rather than just respec into it at level 80 or whatever.
I just donât really see a reason to implement this when the reasons people keep giving boils down to: âIâm lazyâ. Which I totally simpathize with, because Iâm also lazy. I just donât feel itâs a good enough reason to demand something, insult the devs (which is what the OP is doing, whether intentionally or not) and rage quit.
2 Likes
Well you come as a bit rude yourself in your replies. As I mentioned this is not enough to make me drop the game but it would be a welcome addition.
I dont know how long you have been playing LE but you are making some asumptions in your comment, the main one:
- Level 80 in 2-3 days. Days of how many hours, remember not everyone have the same amount of time to play or game knowledge.
For me personally I would be coming fresh after a 2 years break (and only played like 2 weeks at that point). I would be doing lots of experimentation and learning because I am not gonna follow a guide or spoil myself reading guides.
As you mention is the same to you because you like leveling characters so between an implementation that let you do what you want and one that let us both you and me do what we want I would go with the second. That is why I dont understand your tone when you even say you dont care.
Well, I apologize if I seemed rude. That was not my intention. I guess I was feeling a little exasperated because this issue keeps resurfacing and always with the same arguments.
I am not a great expert in LE. Iâve played about 250h so far and itâs been spread between several characters. My experience, which Iâve already mentioned isnât that much, is that you can reach level 80 in 10-ish hours. The slowest levels to me are the first ones. Especially because youâre following the quest for the passives and idol slots. Once you reach monos you can go from 50 to 80 in 2-3h.
I think this is basically similar to auto-pickup/auto-transfer shards. Itâs something I would like as a lazy player. I just donât feel that being lazy is a good enough reason for it and the devs also seem to think so. I have asked about this once, they said no and why and I accepted it, so I donât care about it anymore.
However, in the length of a full cycle, the time spent picking up shards and transfering is probably greater than the time you save from respecing a mastery, depending on how much time you actively play.
Basically, just because someone wants some lazy QoL feature (like pets picking up gold, to mention another) and because some players donât care about that, doesnât automatically make it a necessary feature. And it certainly doesnât give players the right to demand it or insult the devsâ work.
I only referenced Diablo as an example, not as a strict comparison to that game only. POE was also on my mind but even though itâs been a lot longer since I played Diablo than POE, I remember Diablo better (even though I never played much of D3 or any of D4). The point was in my statement right after that sentence.
I was just thinking that in this specific context it was better to comlare to poe as they both match the same class with 3 specs theme and one of them allows respec and one doesnt. It didnt make sense to me to compare to diablo for example, in that regard.
As I said in another thread about his, I actually compare it better with D&D. You choose Fighter and then you choose a sub-class. When youâre playing D&D you donât expect to respec from Eldritch Knight to Combat Master.
In my mind, the mastery defines what the character is, much like the subclass does in D&D. Theyâre grouped around a similar core concept (fighter, rogue, ranger, etc) and then the subclasses define what you actually are, much like in LE where masteries are grouped around a similar core concept (acolyte, sentinel, etc).
1 Like
Sometimes that is my playtime on a week, maybe less maybe more. So if I need to choose between doing the same leveling on the same class once again or doing something more fun is clear what I would want.
Maybe a week doesnt seem like a lot when a cycle will have 12-16 but it would surely stop me to try some things, and at some point make me stop playing.
The comparison with shards is not very good bc I would be playing the game at that point so a bit extra time when you are doing what you enjoy is not as bad as a whole chunk of time just releveling the same char with different spec even if at the end of the cycle it would save me more time to autopickup shards.
Just a matter of feeling ofc but I think it would be good QoL change.
1 Like
Sure, I can understand that. But as I said before, this is also a matter of perception. If you had to choose your mastery at character creation, instead of some time into the campaign, this would be much less of an issue because many of the players claiming for this feature would simply equate mastery with class.
And another perception issue is that your character is ruined if you select the âwrongâ mastery, which it isnât. You can still respec freely and make another build. You mentioned that you have fun trying it out on your own, so I would expect that trying to make the mastery work would also be fun. All masteries have plenty of viable build options to clear endgame, even the ones that are currently underpowered.
EDIT: The bottom line is that, in a game that encourages you to have multiple characters, like LE clearly does, having options that discourage that goes counter to the devs intentions.
1 Like
When you level the same class a second time, you can totally play it differently, to the point where its a compeltely different archetype.
For example playing a Sentinel as Sword & Board Melee mastering Forgeguard and then playing another Sentine land Going Smite Caster Paladin.
And even within the same mastery you can have vastly different archetypes.
Is not perception only. The masteries all share a common root in the class, and they wouldnt if they were independent classes.
Im not implying that my char is ruined but if I decide that I made a mistake and my skill of choice doesnt work with my current mastery and another one would be better then I am forced to level a new character to try that, keep my current one even if it is not good or change skill just because I made a mistake. To me that discourages experimentation.
I wont be having more than 3 characters per cycle, that is almost for sure and wouldnt like some of those to be the same class. So even if LE is encouraging you to make more characters that doesnt change anything for me and maybe is the same for others.
I havent been in the forums in a while, have been reading now and found at least another threat about this, and all I can hear against this feature is people saying I dont need it, I like to level new chars then I dont see why you should have it.
Other than that, is people explaining why you dont need it and that seems extremely patronizing, not everyone wants the same or play in the same way so as long as it doesnt affect other players I dont see what the problem is and why people are so vocal against it.
Like no one can tell why that feature would make LE a worst game.