It’s not as far fetched to line up bosses and orobyss in all timelines and then do this.
Then again, they can already do this within the same mastery. Cheap mastery respec just gives more options.
I don’t think it will be a widespread issue. Maybe a few people will do it, but the majority won’t bother with it, just like they don’t now.
What will happen is the meta of leveling as one mastery and then switching to another for empowered monoliths.
At this point of character progression skills gain levels not that fast yet, and time spent for respeccing + gold spent might not be worth the time saved by leveling with another mastery. Having all final skills at proper level to enable main build looks more important. But who knows. Doesn’t feel like a good reason to increase mastery respec price, for me at least.
Edit: And leveling with some builds might feel really bad until some point of taking/equipping build enabling points/gear. So people already level with another builds sometimes. Why not with another mastery if they have some spare gold?
I don’t disagree with you.
The main issue about this is character identity and protecting it for those that care about it. If the cost for switching is too low, then that takes away from the identity. It it’s high enough, it’s tolerable.
Basically the cost represents how much of the character identity mastery still represents. Which currently is not that much.
Counterpoint: If you’re respecing because you found your build isn’t good or you don’t like it, you probably haven’t been able to farm much with it. A gold cost that was prohibitively expensive would mean playing your crappy build for a significant amount of time when you’ve already decided you don’t want to play it anymore. At some point it would just be more convenient to just level a new character. And THAT would defeat the purpose of the change.
Just going to put a different spin on this.
I’m new to the game. Refugee from POE 2 0.2. I’m loving the game so far. Leveled up all the classes to masteries I like, except for maybe one. I’ve got a 23 necro, but I’m wondering if I should have done warlock. Now, I know it’s only 15 levels to make a new one, but it’d be a lot simpler for me to try warlock if I can switch over my necro.
As for cost? Well, I only have about 70k gold. I’m sure gold isn’t a big deal as you go up in levels, but if there’s any focus available for newer players, 1 mil per level puts the idea completely out of possibility for newer players. I’m sure there are some creative restrictions that can be done, such as a max of 2 respects (oops, made a bad choice. Let me go back, please). But to make it cost too much for newer players who are learning the game and don’t have the uber levels, gear, etc…well, that’s ignoring a portion of the game that may be more and more important as LE rises.
EDIT:
Ok, actually watched the patch notes video, and see that the respec cost for new players is more than reasonable, and it will go up the more levels you are. I’m totally fine with this. Probably should look first before chiming in on these things, eh?
Except we did.
We are not talking about 1kk for every level, we are talking about doing flat 1kk at about level 60-70 and then adding 1kk per level after that.
Yes, you did, and I’m grateful. Thank you.
Perhaps a misunderstanding of the content of the thread due to not reading up on it first. Thank you for the clarification.
I don’t lose any enjoyment if someone respecced the mastery 20 times. You need to be very speacial to have issues about what other people do if it is according to the rules. I bet there are for example a lot of CT’s who never changed their masteries because if you know what you want you go for it.
I like it to be cheap because this will most likely help clueless people who thought “I play shaman it sounds soooo coool!” just to bite nails and scream at a wall because everything is more effective then playing a shaman.
I myself will never waste any gold on this and it’s a completely useless mechanic for me but I like it to be there for people who are in need of it or to watc how some nolife blasters minmax speccing masterys arround to save 2 minutes of time ^^.
Except you’re not arguing for anything. Just asserting that things are bad. I disagree with everything you say. Ok, got to the end, you finally made the boss respec argument. I don’t agree with this at all. Also, skills are important in this respect. Respeccing them still takes a while, so if you want different builds specialized for clearing and bossing, you’ll still need 2 different characters.
Swapping is inherent to LE, it’s easy to swap skills, so it should be easy to swap class specialiazation. Don’t care about someone having to get only 5 alts ready instead of 15.
? If you want to play well with a build you’ll have to learn it…
If you don’t try to spec into a build you won’t have to learn it…
The only thing that allowing respecs changes is that people who regret speccing into something can more easily correct that mistake.
Okay, I smell an argument here, are you talking about builds specialized to do bossing or clear speed? So then if you have 50 points in your class specialization you can take out those points and specialize your class differently just to do a boss. Is that the argument?
Except all class specializations can build to be good at either bossing or have good clear speed, so it’s already possible to switch your build in this way without changing class specialization.
I am a CoF player and don’t care that MG players can easily respec. Enjoy. And as a CoF player it’s not that hard to farm a million gold èither.
We can change almost everything else about our characters. With this respec option the only unchangable thing becomes the class itself. Why do you care?
My friend wanted to do a particular build and realized too late that he took the wrong specialization. We powerlevelled him with my higher character. So it was like 2 hours extra play. So it was fine. It makes little difference allround. I don’t remember, maybe it was less time.
So don’t roll an alt, respec, enjoy. What’s the issue?
I created alts to store/test class specific items. So what?
The only thing I would like is if there was a dungeon or something like in PoE to ascend/specialize. So that you need to complete that same thing for respeccing, instead of just a gold cost. But I don’t think it’s a ‘problem’, it’s just personal preference.
Yup, I think EHG may have been over generous in how they’ve implemented respec and I hope they revisit it again for the next patch (or even sooner, so any limitations don’t invoke hysteria from the community!)
I think there needs to be more limitations, as respec really removes the identity of masteries, which I think is a bad direction to go in.
As other’s have suggested, things like:
or some combination
I agree here.
As for the other questions u asked. @DJSamhein poined out why to one of them in this thread.
Its also why i said if u want to understand this more on why theres issues with the cost. Read the other threads that are about mastery respec. Im not going to repeat every single concern that was brought up about it in this thread.
U may not care about MG players having a far easier time respecing. Those that want to experiment and do not want to trade or hate trading. May feel as if they have to trade. Which breaks the whole reason cof was put into the game.
One way to fix this would be remove gold as a respec cost. And use something like rubies or platinum. And would still drop like gold does and can be picked up like gold. This would then put every player on the same lvl in terms of respec and not give an advantage to those trading.
This would also bring the philosophy of do u want to trade or not back in line with the intentions of putting cof in the game. Currently this is broken now due to gold is tied to trading
That is probably my biggest issue with it. Respecing should be a lvl playing field for all players not easier because one is a trade player.
My feedback post isnt just about me im also taking into account other players and how it may effect them. Or even the game itself.
I agree also with ur limitations.
Imo once ur at like lvl 70 or at least in empowered u should have settled on a build u like.
I can certainly understand the concern for how this can affect the balance of the trade league. But I personally feel like the benefits outweigh the risk. As EH said themselves in a recent interview, allowing for respeccing of character mastery allows them, the devs, to make larger changes to masteries during a league if they feel they are necessary. And the benefits to the devs don’t stop there.
Let’s say the worst fears of those in this post are true, and that players start using one ascendancy for the campaign, and then switch to another for endgame. Or start swapping between them when they reach a certain point in endgame, or to take out specific bosses in endgame. Guess what? All of that is data for the Devs to use to figure out what’s wrong with certain masteries. Before, the only data comparing the masteries within a class was how many of each one got to certain milestones in endgame. Now, with players having the freedom to change their mind if they feel they made a bad choice, every single time they make that choice, it’s more data. And with that data, the Devs can better balance the masteries to make sure there isn’t one that’s miles ahead in crowd clearing, or trivializes bosses, or any other aspect that’s important for game balance.
So in the end, I think the result long-term will be positive. The ideal for the Devs is not for players to play a specific mastery because they chose it at level ~15 and are now trapped. The ideal is for players to play a specific mastery because it is fun for them and they enjoy it. If a mastery isn’t fun, or is too underpowered, or too outshined by another mastery in that class, the Devs want to fix that. And this gives them the ability to see that with cold hard data rather than having to sort through tons of subjective feedback.
I’ll have to admit that I have not read absolutely everything so I might have missed or misunderstood something here and there.
However:
As of now I do not think the cost for respeccing should be increased.
The main reason I can confidently have this opinion is that, as someone else pointed out, it does not really affect me at all if someone abuses the respeccing system.
The game is not suddenly less fun if I find out someone else is playing in a way that I don’t find fun.
Maybe there’s some competitive aspect that gets affected by this, I dont know and honestly dont really care that much.
What does affect me is the measures we’d take to prevent people from abusing the system.
It should be done in a way that does not “punish” the “casual players”.
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I noticed a few people mentioned the idea that you should generally know what you’re going for by level 70 or so.
This is not the case at all.
There are build defining equipment pieces that can’t be used before at least level 85.
I’m currently thinking about World Splitter, since it’s the one I’m most familiar with.
I’m sure there are more that fit the role.
When you get to level 85 and the build you’ve been grinding for is not as fun as you thought it could be, it’s very easy to just lose all motivation to play that character.
In this situation it’s really important to be able to respec subclasses, especially if you want to try to use the same equipment piece again.
Leveling up to 85 just to see if a build is functional is quite frankly miserable.
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I saw an idea about making the respeccing use a different currency that would be completely independent from gold but function pretty much the same.
The key point being that players in the merchant guild would have way easier access to loads of gold and thus the cost being effectively nothing.
I more or less agree with this idea.
I do wish this currency was shared between characters that share a stash though.
Going back to the World Splitter example. You can really quickly notice that the plan B does not work either if you can use World Splitter from the start.
Since plan C might also include respeccing to a different subclass it could be really annoying to have to gather more of this second currency to be able to respec back.
I believe it should be something you can at least go farm on a different character.
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There was also an idea of having to clear a dungeon to respec.
I have not played PoE so I don’t know how this actually works there but I dont disagree with the idea.
I think as long as it’s not too challenging to clear it’ll work well to make constantly respeccing more tedious while not affecting others that much.
The reason I don’t think it should be challenging is because I don’t believe a skill issue should prevent you from trying out something new with the same character.
The meta already started and we’re not even at launch day.
Rax is already saying that there’s no point in leveling a Marksman, just level Falconer and then switch mastery.
Maxroll only has 5 leveling guides now, one for each class, because there’s no point in not using the most efficient one and then switching later.
Shush now with your slippery slope arguments!!
Thats actually a really good point.
Which could still be done even with all players be on the same lvl when it comes to respecing. Vs trade having the advantage.
Which as iv said already breaks the whole do u want to trade or not. Imo this should remain as such. There should be nothing in the game that gives an incentive to go trading.
Iv also explained why as well
That would be me.
Switching should be an equal playing field. Replacing gold with something like rubies or platinum. Would level this out.
It would also bring back the philosophy of do u want to trade or not. From do u want to trade NO. Ok do u want to experiment or even only roll 2 characters maybe 5 and try all masteries YES. Then trade maybe where u want to go.
Its not about asking once self do u want to trade or not anymore.
As for sharing this with other characters like gold is. Yup id say that wouldnt be a problem. Would still keep respecing on a level play field.
By replacing gold with something like this. Im referring to everything in regards to respecing passives as well.
I agree this is another good idea for it. Could even be done in away to where its required. And the cost could still remain the same.
Only time will tell. And as we can see theres already a meta forming around this. To which i pointed out was already happening since the first day they revealed this. With no info on cost till a couple weeks later in the tour of the erased
Edit. Id also say mastery respecing should be a safty net. For if u dont like a build or make a mistake u can fix it.
What i dont agree with and 100% against it is mastery respecing being a form of campaign skip. Im all for experimentation. Exept once ur far enough into the game this should be harder to do. Aka safty net
Definitely agree with this.
Even if others’ actions don’t affect me I don’t like the idea of using a different subclass purely because it’s faster to get through the story like that.
I agree that it should mainly be a safety net for those who want to try to correct a past mistake rather than a tool to be used strategically to optimize the playthrough.
I simply just don’t see a perfect solution to prevent strategic respeccing while keeping the process easy and simple for others.
I don’t think even level 100 should be too late to respec. There will be characters with the same builds being moved into legacy mode. At that point it might be preferable to just swap to a new subclass on one of the two instead of completely abandoning one. Obviously you could try to figure out a different build on the same subclass but if it was me I’d just start leveling up something new.
Eventually the “duplicate characters” will start piling up and you’ll have to abandon some of them. The point at which this happens will be delayed by the ability to respec and have more options for one character.
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I’ve thought about the issue a bit more after first reading about it here and so far my best idea on trying to minimize the effect to casual players is to add limitations to only hardcore characters. I would assume most people who don’t care about trying to get through the story as efficiently as possible are not playing hardcore.
To be fair I don’t actually know how many players actually have hardcore characters.
All I know is that I wont bother adding extra rules on myself. I’d rather go with the fuck around and find out approach.