Poison conversion node
I doubt my suggestion is something that could make it into the next release because it’ll involve graphically restructuring the skill tree. My guess is the devs will only want to do something like that when they work on the unused bottom half and underused upper right of the skill tree.
As for constructive feedback, it would come down to how 15 mana is too costly for a skill that needs to be spammed to build up enough poison stacks to function, and how the attack speed penalty from the previous nodes also makes it harder to build stacks.
If the devs are willing to rework the bottom left side (charge up branch), think it’d make a decent alternate home for a poison build. Could have nodes that let you do multi-level charge attacks with each charge level applying more stacks of poison at once, and have the charge time be faster based on your attack speed.
I agree with this thread of Puncture being too weak but its just tedious to play
ive played Marksman to 87 and I dont like archers but I wanted to play it and see, I tried basically every skill
For endgame Multishot and Detonating Arrow are vastly superior due to gearing and just straight up damage. I have basically every type idol such as Multishot damage, Increased Damage while holding a Bow etc
DoT builds are my favorite for self killing and dont really like them in LE due to the fact I prefer to place a long lasting non stackable DoT on them and just move on or stack different DoTs, having to shoot trash monsters multiple times is just tedious and just feels like im playing a bad hit based build and the gear % bonus. Havent played this character in months though
I even had at one stage a juiced Hail of Arrows setup that still underperformed vs DA/MS, so any buffs at all are welcome to other skills
Yes, but it’s not the purpose of an arpg to have one outstanding skill that everyone plays because of its mechanical advantage. Only because Shurikens scales poison stacks really good doesn’t mean Rogue, for me especially marksman is in a good spot for Ailment builds.
Again, i’m pretty sure you are talking about the build that uses all the broken mechanics from Shuriken, Decoy & Acid Flask together. Yes there are couple of build guides on YT for that.
We are in a Beta, and the purpose of a beta is to help the devs making the game ready for release. And for skills to give them as much feedback as we can to have the most possible balanced game for release and season 1. I dont want to see 50% of the playerbase playing one skill again like in PoE for 2 years. To me it sounds like you are saying ‘‘there is one strong poison build for Rogue, so rogue is in a good spot with ailments’’, which is not the case, because LE has a huge amount of build variety.
There are two main reasons why Shuriken works great with Poison.
First: The attack rate of the Shurikens is way higher than any other Rogue build. (offense)
Second: You can Kite while attacking. (defense)
The Number one reason why Ailment Builds are currently either underperforming, awkward to play or not satisfying is that it feels like playing a weaker Crit Build version with the same playstyle. With Multishot i have to stand still but can deal big crits and stuns against the enemies. Therefore both offense and defense is good since you can kill enemies before they hit you.
The playstyle for many ailment builds doesn’t change! You stand still, cast your skill and you wait until finally the ailments stacks reach the number of a single burst Crit hit from Multishot. During that time you are more vulnerable to enemy dmg.
That’s the reason why skills like Shuriken, Warpath, Minion Builds like Bleed Beastmaster work with ailments, because you can easily kite and focus around survivability rather than hitting enemies by standing still.
And when you additionaly have a skill like Bleed Puncture that lacks AoE, of course its hard to compete with MS or DA currently. Again, Ailment builds are ALL viable for endgame Monolith. Arena is something else.
And it’s not a problem with the numbers on Puncture, it’s a mechanical problem for Ailments in general to Puncture.
Just google it. It’s not a new build or anything just Shuriken + Flask Decoy allows you to stack a ton of poison. Several people have made videos of it.
Then make a thread about that? Did you read OP or the thread title?
Yeah, you are right. There’s one obviously broken overpowered build/mechanic. I don’t think that this means that Rogue ailment builds are in a good spot in general. Especially not in all the context that got disussed here in this thread.
That’s why I proposed a buff to the mutilate node of Puncture. It is the only node that completely change the way ailments work (by consuming all the bleed stacks every 3 hits).
An alternative change could be that every 3 hit you add ailments to the targets equals to what 10-15 hits of your build would produce but you add a 2s cooldown to puncture on third hit. This way you would hit 3 times your targets (preferably AoE with a cheap mana cost on Penumbral Ambush) then dodge things around for 2 seconds then repeat.
My initial post focuses on 2 things: 1. change the way puncture ailment is played 2. buff the damage of the skill. This can be achieved in many different ways.
Because just because multiple people “claiming” something doesn’t necessarily mean, that you won’t enjoy a specific build.
And when you play a given build your own, you can give your own accurate feedback.
There are soooo many skills that are very unpopular, because they are “weak” or “clunky” or what ever and i had some of my most fun builds ever with some of those skill.
Are you referring to the glass cannon Level 100 Bladedancer who has zero AoE, low HP, low dodge and generally seems only good for boss killing after stacking multiple debuffs and ramping poison for multiple seconds? Yeah that pumps out huge DPS and a good boss killer but its not a solid build overall - thats one of the last builds I would want to run Empowered Timeliness with 150% increased monster damage among other things
Yeah exactly why I dont like Puncture or Serpent Strike a great deal as clearning Monoliths are pretty painful. I much prefer applying a massive DoT on a monster and leaving them to die
One of my favorite builds ever was Firebird Wizard in D3 - with the set bonus once you applied a certain threshold of damage the monsters would burn until they died regardless of what it was, bosses would take a while to die but it was nice knowing you applied a DoT which will kill the monster and you just played around that
The only thing I would really like to see is something in Puncture like “Applies 10 stacks of bleed instantly, monsters cannot have more than 10 stacks of bleed. 50% less bleed duration” or something
Yes, mixing Puncture with HoA helps alot with the AoE issue and you also get some good additional dmg.
Was a nice playstyle yes. One of my favorite builds in D3 was Jade Harvester for Witch Doctor. Applying all the different DoTs and finishing off the enemies with a massive explosion. The Disembowel passive node for Rogue is a good mechanic that kinda comes close to that.
I know what you mean, yes. This is actually what Disembowel on Rogue tree does right, but only for bleed currently. It would also help that every skill gets a seperate internal Ailment effectiveness based on the skill mechanic. For example Warpath gets a 50% ailment effectivness because of the high attack rate and movement ability. A higher mana cost and slow hitting skill like poison Detonating Arrow becomes a 200% base ailment effectivness (only for poison because shock might be too powerful ). And a skill like Puncture that is imo focused around stacking bleed or poison stacks something like 150%. Was just an example, might be broken numbers for some skill and this needs testing of course but i hope you get my idea? I also like the Dex stacking idea on the skilltree for Cinder Strike that gives you additional 6% Fire damage over time per point of dex. Something like this could be already in the skill for Puncture. Each point of Dex gives 2% increased bleed duration additionaly to 4%increased dmg that we currently have, something like that.
I’m currently playing a build that’s very close to that. I call it Singularity Burn Hail of Arrow where you just empty your mana pool to launch a massive HoA. It’s really good for empowered timelines and amazing as a boss killer. After ramping for a while HoA deals 120k damage per tick with my current average gear. I think it can do a lot more.
I’ll put up a guide soon. If there’s already a build or a guide for this build, bear with me, I recently joined and don’t know all builds already covered.
Ive actually played a Hail of Arrows build which pretty much one use killed everything up to Timeline bosses but then I tried Detonating Arrow and Multishot and never went back
If Hail of Arrows followed you around… but its so mana intensive and I had to drag mobs into the AoE to get coverage
Hey all, just want to chime in since i bought the game like 2 days ago and decided to go for a marksman puncture build on a whim. Having only ““basic”” knowledge of DoT’s and how they tend to work in general i wanted to share a view from a leveling-early monoliths perspective.
While it is doable and you’re able to clear stuff, it falls off pretty hard in early 50-60, and you need to really pump up those +chance to bleed/DoT affixes on pretty much everything you’re able to. This is not what made me feel “eh” about it though, because it’s easily fixable with a little crafting and some smart passive choices. What really made me regret starting as this build, though, is the fact that trying to use puncture as the be all end all (main) skill is just clunky. It feels super weird (and to be honest slow sometimes) to shred those big chunky healthy monsters even when you’re doing about 30-40 bleed stacks every 3 hits (i’m using 3 hits as a parameter because of: mutilate and that one passive in rogue tree that applies 5 stacks in the “3rd” hit).
My first thought on this was: hey, let me grab this node that makes me summon 2 mirages to help me on my journey of puncture main. Instantly respecced out of it because 15 mana cost is WAY too much. I really liked the idea that one of the users here gave: Make it a 2 point node with: 1 mirage +5 mana cost and 2 mirages at 10 mana cost.
I’m using Detonating arrow with the scorpion node active for clear and i have to say: it’s >extremely< more effective than using puncture all together. This + HoA is enough to kill pretty much anything really. At this point, using puncture just feels like a “flavored decision”.
Anyways, that’s my 2 cents from the perspective of a 2/3 day old player that has played puncture from scratch on SSF.
). And a skill like Puncture that is imo focused around stacking bleed or poison stacks something like 150%. Was just an example, might be broken numbers for some skill and this needs testing of course but i hope you get my idea? I also like the Dex stacking idea on the skilltree for Cinder Strike that gives you additional 6% Fire damage over time per point of dex. Something like this could be already in the skill for Puncture. Each point of Dex gives 2% increased bleed duration additionaly to 4%increased dmg that we currently have, something like that.