Je pense faire pareille, j’ai le sentiment de parler a des murs, peu importe les arguments que l’on apporte, il ne font que dire que c’est pas bien. Je comprend pas. Si il veulent faire la campagne 15000 fois qu’il le face, mais qu’il ne l’impose pas au autre.
1 Like
To put it bluntly
- Creating another levelling system is an extremely inefficient way to solve the problem and it just looks really bad since it has the appearance of a lazy solution. I mean it makes a lot more sense to just improve the current campaign (which will also probably fit the lore/story better). In the end you end up dealing with semantics anyways since you can argue that even with an included alternate levelling system that everything minus the endgame is just defined as a “campaign”, it just looks weird done this way.
- Just adding things to the game because people want it is the best way to ruin a game. People are good at identifying problems, they are generally terrible at providing solutions. Games have specific designs and if game developers just keep on adding what people want then even the concept of the original game gets lost i.e. you may end up turning LE into a weird MMORPG (which is actually kind what happened to D3). There are also the obvious issues of scope/effort.
- There isn’t any evidence of this working, I mean D3 did it and you said it doesn’t work and I don’t think a slightly different version of it would be much better.
Figuring out a different build is not interesting enough? I mean at this point its not even a second different book, you are just asking to do mono from level 1 but this is even worse because you most likely were already doing monos from a previous character you just “finished”.
I mean if I just finished (or got tired from a character) I would have just been doing mono runs so actually the last thing I want to do is to do even more mono runs with a fresh character from level 1. At least with the campaign even though I have done it many times before at least its a something different then doing mono runs all of the time.
1 Like
I will not respond any further.
I can’t see if you don’t understand me, if I’m not clear, if you think your opinion is the only one valid or if it’s someething else, but it’s obvious that we won’t agree. I strongly disagree with you but I respect your opinion, I will therefore not continue arguing.
1 Like
No worries, understood! I think we have all said what we wanted to say.
So, I apologize in advance, I will try not to be mean.
But for a moment it annoys me.
What the fuck can I prefer to do 8 hours of monolyte than 8 in the countryside.
How you occupy your time I don’t care, time to have fun, it’s cool. But not forcing your choices on me. Are we talking about the walls or what do you read our arguments or is it a waste of time? I don’t understand where the problem is with leaving the choice to others to do what they want in the game. A guy decides to stop and dance in the middle of the map, face it if it amuses him, I don’t care, just don’t make me do the same. You love campaigning 150 times in a row, but please do it. But not me. So I would like no one to impose it on me, is it so complicated to understand?
Especially since I’m not asking someone to invent me a system or whatever, let me do the monolyte or the arena and I would be happy. I’m not asking for the moon.
I am just trying to understand how this will help. To be clear, I don’t campaign 150 hours in a row, I campaign 3 hours (because this is how long it takes roughly to get to mono from a fresh char) and then I do mono until I get sick/bored of my character. At this point in time I typically make a new character and the last thing I want to do is to even more monos especially since I was just monoing on my last character for most likely 10+ hours.
I am being honest here, I don’t see how this is helping anything. I mean in general there isn’t a problem in adding choice into the game but from what I can see this is kind of pointless choice since I suspect it will make an immaterial difference. Ontop of this arguably the current mono likely needs changes to make it more interesting.
But help what?
It’s just a matter of choice.
Here is your choice with you, you say it you want to stop the monolyte.
What if I want to continue the monolyte but with my new character? Why I have to redo the whole campaign … If I want to do monolyte for life, that’s my problem, no.
There is no problem to solve or understand. If your neighbor eats potatoes tonight, that’s what he wants to eat, if you want something else, do it. Or do you see a problem here nowhere. everyone eats what they want, so if I only want to do 24/7 monolyte that’s my problem, I don’t ask you to do the same.
I’m just asking that since I want to do 24/7 monolyte let me do monolyte. Without having to campaign, I don’t want to, that’s my problem, you do it as many times as you want or when you want.
I mean I guess at this point you can argue anything. I mean you can say in a reductionist manner why can’t I just add guns to LE and turn it into an FPS. Of course this example is extreme but I am illustrating the point that content additions should be justified, there are literally billions of choices of what people want to add but not only can you not physically add what everyone wants but also it doesn’t make sense to do so.
And I think its good to finish on this point which is that I haven’t seen any good justification for this apart from “why not”. There is another game that did something similar (D3) but from what I can see it didn’t actually solve the problem.
You answer completely next to it, you don’t understand because you don’t want to understand. When I ask to add something? Just to let me choose between existing things.
He has an apple, a banana and an orange on the table. you tell me take what you want. I take the banana, there is nothing created, it was already there. If I ask for a cherry, its would have been complicated, but it’s not.
Am I repeating myself or did I ask for something new? The monolyte does not exist? Let him just let me do it. That’s all
It is not me, who is not an argument it is you. I gave 15000 arguments you just didn’t read them.
So according to the turn of your sentence, are you the judge?
At what point do you decide what is good to put in the game or not, and whether this or that idea is good or bad. You can have an opinion but you are not the judge so do not judge. You disagree for some reason other than having a deaf debate. it’s your choice. But what will judge are the devs, and this forum is there to suggest improvements to the developer. So we express our request.
I ended up doing the same thing. I am intentionally not looking up any builds or anything like that so i get a true feeling for the game, difficulty etc. Especially a game in beta following some cookie cutter rush to endgame build takes all the fun out for me. Its also why i enjoy the campaign levelling process to learn everything. I mean sure after 30+ times it will get boring but pretty much every game known to man has boring levelling. I mean sure D3 has adventure mode but even then people just PL and create the top meta build. I guess im a minority that see no problem with the current way to level and wouldnt care if they implemented multiple ways.
1 Like
Yeah I end up feeling the same, I just tried one of these meta builds and its already getting a bit boring but the reason why I created this char is just for unique/gear farming.
But the boring is relative. In diablo, you can for xp campaign, do rifts, make monster chains, open a bardiche.
It’s up to you to make your choice, that’s all, maybe for one to do rifts more boring than opening a bardiche. And maybe for another it will be the opposite. As I say, just a matter of choice.
It’s just a matter of what we prefer to do. nothing is better, but sometimes we prefer to do one thing than another.
It all becomes boring or horrible in the end haha
1 Like
Yes of course, but you have the choice of what to be bored about again it’s just the subject, ask to be bored on what you want
Not doing the impossible, just repeating over and over again becomes boring no matter what. Now given the choice of what to be bored about is now normal in an ARPG. No modern ARPG has only one option for xp a character.
This is such an important point that I think got lost. I think this discussion is really good feedback for the development team, at the very least it puts it on their radar that there are people who dislike levelling through the story content.
I really appreciate your input, and I’ve seen you’re are passionate about the game! I think maybe some things do get lost in translation (normally the main point is obvious, but the subtleties are lost).
I agree choice isn’t a bad thing for the player. However, I don’t know that it’s as simple as ‘turn on monolith from level 1’ - I’m not a developer so I have no idea what that would require from as technical point of view (if they want it to be an option for the second character on, how is this coded? What about scaling all the way down to level 1 - currently monoliths are scaled to a set level, so there’s probably more work there etc.). There’s also the issue of things like passive points and idol slots that are unlocked from specific story quests - how do you ensure characters get them regardless of which way they choose to level.
I’m not saying that extra work should be a reason NOT to allow choice, I do think that there needs to be some evidence that the work will actually solve the root problem. (I’m not even sure the root problem has been identified).
Either way, I hope people understand that we’re all just trying to help shape a game we really enjoy, and I don’t think any of us are out to personally attack another member of the community. I think @arussa said it really well in another thread - we’re so passionate because we care so much, not because we hate it.
2 Likes
Indeed it is quite possible. I am sorry for that.
The ideal for this would be to unlock them at specific levels, which would be almost equal to the level we have in the adventure at those moment.
I understand that this is not a priority, it is even normal.
Regarding the problem as I explained rather there is no problem in itself. Just a certain person so I would like not to be forced to do the whole campaign on each reroll that’s all.
On the contrary I think that the only problem comes from those who categorically refuse, when it makes no sense, more choice is never a bad thing, it does not really affect them since they can also do as they wish. please I think these people are afraid that what will do something else will go faster than them. (while we are not asking to go faster) The real problem in my opinion is this.
Of course, I myself don’t want to attack anyone, it’s true that I got angry. But having to repeat the same thing over and over again, having to justify just wanting more diversity after a while by tiring especially when the person has no contradictory arguments or which advance the debate. Contrary to your message which is constructed and with a real reflection which brings to the debate, I take pleasure in answering.
1 Like
If it takes the same time I’m okay with it but 8h is a lot ^^. It’s doable in 3-4h with a bit of gear from your chest and if you don’t have to care for all the sidequests and get these points in some magical ways you’ll go even faster.
It’s not that easy sadly if the don’t reduce the ammount of XP gain in said mode drasticly. It’s just a ton of work and I can’t see a way how they manage to implement this in a meaningfull time frame.
I think you’re right, but personally I’m a perfectionist, and I can’t stand leaving an area without revealing the whole map (even if I know it by heart) So in this case it easily takes us 8 hours. After its it’s our fault I agree.
So yes, like I said, it is clear that XP levels the guy who will farm the arena if it were to be available. Go faster, not because the exp is bigger, just that there is no time to bite between the monsters. But its anyway that we are clear, in the end it will always be tight as its players will look for the most opti to go faster.
It should not be hoped that limited players will balance the game in terms of speed, it is competition and competition is inherently unfair. A guy with 200 kilos of muscle will be stronger than an athletic guy, but the athletic guy will run faster and faster. So a competition of alteropholia, we know the winner. It’s sad but it’s like her. And it was the same on the game.
So to hope that everyone is the same luck is impossible. A guy who works who has a life will never squeeze as good as a guy who can play 10 hours a day.
Regarding the time it will take for the developer, I don’t think we will ask for it right away, but in the future, like for the release of the game, so they have the time and especially other priority which is obvious.
I always take my time and do almost all side quests. I’d say it takes me 6 to 8 hours. Different persons, different skills, also. 
2 Likes