I have been scouring my brain for anything like an alternative leveling system that I might have played but I can only remember story driven leveling. The thing that like about it is I can get attached to a character and reliving the moment can bring new revelations and insights. For some examples I played through BL2 30+ times and
BL2 spoiler
I still cry when angel destroys Sanctuary
In POE i always look forward to hearing from Dalia call me “Not-a-Cockroach”.
For LE I love when the Emperor says:
I would not. If Arena was an alternative to the campaign it would be good, but I personaly would not be satisfied. I’m not an arena pusher, I use it to level skills when I respecialize, but I get bored rather quickly because of repetitivity.
Thats the problem, any alternative system will be just as (if not more) boring by definition, unless you want to have a cheat mode that puts your character on level 70 or something
Well yeah this is the basic premise which is that the current campaign is boring (also because its linear)
I really cannot emphasis this more, the other point of the campaign is to flesh out the build of your character and get a handle of how your character plays (i.e. swapping out skills, figuring out the nodes passives that you need, etc etc).
I am getting the suspicion that most of the people that are complaining that this specific part is boring are the ones that netdeck some build online and expect to speedrun up until level 60 which is fine but as is said previously you are always going to be bored regardless of whatever system there is (campaign or not). I mean whether netdecking or not is a “problem” can be arguably another discussion but at least currently LE is a lot more forgiving in figuring out your builds (compared to a game like PoE) for numerous reasons so I don’t think its unreasonable to say that you kind of have the wrong expectations of the game.
For me at least personally what I find LE fun is that I don’t feel like I have to netdeck all the time and that I have personally figured a few viable builds on my own without having to copy some online build, in fact up until 1 week ago I intentionally decided not to copy a build and I only did it right now to see what its like (and also get a grasp of how broken this specific build is, its a BM SD build).
So yeah I guess I don’t know what to say here apart from the fact that if the people that are complaining about this are approaching the game with the expectation that levels 1-60 are pointless after you have done it a few times then no other alternative system will improve the situation unless you simply put just entirely remove the concept of levelling from 1-60 in which case arguably an aRPG is probably not the game that you are looking for
And this can’t be done in an alternative leveling system why? I wouldn’t advocate for a “faster” leveling system. Just an alternative. Drop me in the Endgame content (scaled down) where there are fewer interruptions to progress. Allow me to choose between the X number of endgame systems to enjoy while leveling and learning the character and build I wish to have.
Right but I don’t see how this is actually solving the problem. From what I see the actual underlying complaint seems to be the amount of time that people have to “waste” in the campaign getting to ~60. If you just provide an alternate campaign (or even mono runs as you suggest) then people will just claim this ends up being boring instead of the actual campaign. I mean psychologically speaking you are bound to get just as sick of doing monos from 1-60 as you are doing the campaign.
Actually I would find it much more boring to just do mono runs over and over again from level 1 because at least with the current mono design this is more monotonous then the campaign but I can see how other people can experience it differently.
Also the point of endgame/mono system is to put your build to the limits, its deliberately designed not for levelling. The campaign is designed to be more forgiving so that the levelling experience more smooth which is what makes it easier to change your build around. Of course this is not the case if you just netdeck the top builds, but if you are trying to dynamically create a fresh build yourself its easier to tune it when the difficulty curve is not so high.
I can’t speak for the others, but this is no MY view.
My opinion is that I am somewhat bored with the campaign. Image reading the same book 30 times in a row, watching the same movie 30 times in a row, etc. Of course it’s not exactly the same, but there are some similarities.
The campaign is for me around 8 hours, I don’t mind this time, I would be happy to level another way in the same amount of time.
The problem is ultra repetitivity.
Right, but by definition you will also get bored of whatever alternative campaign gets created due to the same reasons you got bored of the original campaign in the first place. Logically by extension then there is no difference in either making the current campaign more interesting or by creating a second campaign.
This is of course using the assumption that you already have 10 plus characters, of course when you do the alternative campaign the first couple/few times it won’t be boring but then once you do it again and again it will also become boring.
I mean traditionally speaking the way that aRPG’s solved this specific problem is with leagues, i.e. PoE basically introduces a new mechanic/mini campaign every league season and also adds new content to keep things interesting (ontop of this after the season is done they integrate this new mechanic into the permanent standard game which is a great setup), however at this point we are talking about something thats completely different then just a second alternative campaign, you are instead constantly pumping content which is basically PoE’s business model (indirectly via cosmetics that get bundled with the new content).
Honestly the critical thing about a games design is its gameplay loop, you can have the same “content” but if the gameplay loop itself is good enough then it won’t get boring. This is the case with figher games, MOBA’s (i.e. Dota2) and rogue like games such as Darkest Dungeon (which has very little content but due to its design doesn’t game boring if you like that type of game). Ultimately you either end up having to constantly add content or you create a gameplay loop that is interesting enough in of itself or some combination of the two. A second alternate campaign by itself is not going to cut it unless its gameplay loop is better than the current campaign (at which point you have a good argument of just making the current campaigns game loop more interesting).
If you have two ways to level, it will the twice as long to get bored with both. That’s simple. Imagine it takes 30 levelings to get bored with the campaign… if there was a second way, it would take 60 levelings to get bored of both.
And I did not think about a second campaign, more some endgame-like activity.
In Diablo 3, once you completed the campaign, you don’t have to replay it. You can at any moment, with new or existing characters, but it’s not mandatory. And that’s good. It’s sad that the rifts system of Diablo is so extremely repetitive.
Really I have the impression that people do not understand. Nobody wants XP faster. That’s not the point, just like shtrak says what’s tiring is to read the same book 30 times. and browse the same map in the same order. It’s boring monster hitting if not change the game. So to make us monolyte (with random maps) is simply less boring.
What bothers us in the campaign is that it does not change, you will have the same map in the same order with the same bosses in the same place … In the monolyte you have different maps and different objectives to be reached every time. The difference between the two seems obvious to me.
Well actually no, I mean it may take twice as long but you are talking about twice as long as what is already a low value. I can guarantee that if you are already getting bored of the current campaign and they add a new campaign that is just as interesting as the old one then it won’t take that much longer to get bored of it as well.
Yes and this is also incredibly boring (I have D3 and used to play it). This alternative levelling system didn’t solve this issue at all, which is why I don’t think it will solve it here either.
Right, and what I am saying is that rather than creating another boring second book, just make the original book more interesting. There are books that you can reread 10 times because they are interesting and there are books that you pretty much get bored with after you finish it (or even before).
The proper solution here is to just not make the book boring in the first place otherwise you end up creating a situation where you have to constantly pump out semi interesting content to make things interesting for people.
I’m against it. This is something for the future after the release. Right now and at launch people who reroll a lot should take their time to get from point a to point b. This isn’t a D3 expension that alters the lame old vanilla game, this will be a brand new titel and if people can rush through it you’ll get a lot of bad reviews about “This is it? 1week and I’m done? What a joke!”.
This is something for the future and seasonal content but nothing for the vanilla start of the game.
Clearly, what we want is not a new mode, not a new diablo or whatever. We don’t want more exp.
We simply want the choice of this “end of time” return directly to the creation of the character, and to have the choice through the existing mode, which are: the campaign, monolyte, arena and that’s all nothing else. I don’t see how that bothers anyone.
I disagree. Strongly.
BTW, what is the problem? I mean, I don’t want to force people to play a specific way, I would like to have a choice. You’re really telling me that I should not be able to chose? I could understand and accept that if I saw a valid reason.
I propose a choice. People who only want to level with the campaign would be able to do so, people who would want a second path would have it. Nothing more than the possibility to chose.
That’s true, because their system (which I have played for more than 2000 hours) is poorly designed.
True and I do so, but I don’t read the same book ten times in a row. When I finish one book, before reading it again I read another book. Then I can come back to the first one.
After the debate on what amuses you, I want to say, everyone likes what they like. If I am less bored with a monolyte than with a campaign than you sincerely have to do with it. that’s my problem.
To sum it up: leveling a hero from level 1 to level 50 takes around 8 hours. I would like to have the choice about how I will spend these 8 hours.
The discussion is not progressing anymore and many comments are purely ignored. I will stop here.
