Let us use LP uniques in Nemesis Egg (Remove LP and prevent rolling LP)

Feedback and Suggestions
101

Yes, and significantly reduces the 0 LP rate of uncommon uniques as well, not rare ones.

It overall reduces the 0 LP rate, which means less ‘fodder’ for the Nemesis mechanic. And especially CoF needs ‘specific fodder’ and not ‘random fodder’ for that mechanic, hence the ‘but overall you get more then you can use’ argument doesn’t apply.

Secondly, not being allowed to use 1 LP items for Nemesis was argumented by EHG with ‘But people could worsen their results and not understand it’ which is not only one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard but also insulting to the playerbase (Yes, devs can say and do quite dumb things too, shocker). The argument wasn’t ‘we want to regulate the amount of created items with it’.

Which is also factually not true.
How so?

If I wear a 1 LP legendary Wraithlord Arbour and put a 0 LP one into the Nemesis mechanic… who gets the better outcome? MG or CoF? Ah right… neither. You just get an outcome.
Obviously CoF gets a 2 LP variant earlier anyway… but that’s exactly of ‘0’ matter.

Which is why I find the whole ‘MG vs. CoF’ argumentation line utterly nonsensical in the first place. The system has a flaw and that’s not connected to the factions, it just has a badly designed aspect which was intentionally badly designed for one of the worst reasons I’ve ever heard developers mention.

Yeah, does it matter?
The point still stands that the system should allow inputting LP items solely for the aspect that it provides a bigger variety of choice with also a personal choice on how risky it should be.

No matter fi CoF or MG.
CoF simply gets less chances for their specific item (in %) to use for the mechanic… it doesn’t change the - far worse - underlying issue.

102

It’s not, though. Because that’s the whole point. You want to get a 2LP. Right now CoF gets a 2LP more easily, even if they don’t put as many uniques in the egg, simply because the odds of having a 2LP drop are better than a 2LP egg.

If you let 1+LP into the egg, CoF still has a better chance to drop a 2LP than using an egg. So it’s only MG that actually benefits a lot from this.

This I agree with, regardless. But as I pointed out, it’s more useful for MG. CoF would benefit more from simply letting CoF ranks affect the nemesis items.

103

I just wanted to emphasize that the CoF perk works the same across the board, which means (as showed at least two times already) that it reduces the % of 0LP drops and increases the % of 1LP as well as 2LP/3LP/4LP, which in turns means a relative reduction in terms of usable items for the Nemesis. In this sense I argue that it matters… in the wrong way :grin:

Generally, I am actually arguing the same thing as you, 100% pro having 1LP (I’d go as far as updating the mechanic to work with any LP, greater risk but greater rewards) accepted by the Nemesis mechanic.

1 Like
104

I feel a bit … wrong about jumping in here, I’m just looking for a clarification.

If I get a 1LP item that isn’t useful to me, I’m getting so many of those (at the common level), that I’m just selling it (or not picking it up), right? So how does a worse outcome from the Nemisis hurt me in anyway?

Time loss? Egg-loss? So, I think what Kulze is saying is, ‘choosing to remove player agency in this case for a fear that someone might not actually understand how the system works is bizarre because if they didn’t understand how the system works they wouldn’t have picked up the 1LP item to being with’.

Am I getting that right?

2 Likes
105

Except the whole thread, explicitly specified in the title even, is about letting us use LP items in the egg in a way it prevents adding more LP, just exchanging those the item already have for affixes.

106

Do I?
That’s the utterly wrong premise to start with. Who says that?
Maybe I want a lucky T7 roll, maybe I don’t have any 1 LP item yet and just want ‘something’ on it. Maybe I’ve got a 1 LP item and want a 2 LP base. Maybe I have a 2 LP base but no fitting exalted yet and hence I’m gambling for a great 2 LP legendary outcome.

Those all exist.
You can’t ignore them, each single one of those possibilities has to be taken into consideration instead of being ignored. Does one uphold at any given specific time? Yes? Then we got a issue with LP items not being usable in the mechanic, it’s fairly simple.

It is of no matter who gets more or less use out of it if the underlying issue already causes problems on a lower level. Why discuss if it causes on a higher hierarchy another problem on top that’s 100% related to it if it gets solved by changing the root cause anyway?

Mostly. If they don’t understand it then it’s a learning situation. One bad choice and then you know anyway. But overall… yes, bizarre choice indeed :slight_smile:

1 Like
107

Hmm, maybe this is a source of misunderstanding.

You see, I am literally flooded with 1LP. The vast majority of drops are, for me, 1LP (with stash to prove it :slightly_smiling_face: - and gdmit I will start tracking the numbers).

But my experience is CoF full upgrade, 250-350+ corruption.

So for me it is incredibly frustrating to see how most of my drops are basically dead-ends and wishing that they were 0LP.

108

I already said I’m all for that. I’m even fine with simply letting it reroll LP as well. I’m even fine with simply letting it reroll the same item over and over again.

3 Likes
109

Question; you are storing all these because 1) you are a packrat. welcome brother! 2) your brain tells you that you might, someday, find a use for these… which is just 1), isn’t it? :grin: again, welcome brother!

And now onto a point; if a player like UrdNaXela or me saves up a bunch of 1LP and then feeds them to the Nemisis, we’re doing that in the hope (vain hope, most likely) to make the item better. And really, just for the chance to make it better. Worst case, we clear out some inventory.

I really think EHG made a bad choice here.

2 Likes
110

But that’s the opposite of the intended suggestion, and in these cases, it would indeed benefit MG way more than CoF. It would probably also affect the market longterm…
Whereas not allowing a 1LP item roll more LP will benefit both factions equally.

111

I’m of the sort that currently has 4 boxes of various USB (and non USB) cables/chargers, most if not all outdated, and my wife is not entirely happy about this, nor the very real prospect that there will be even more of those boxes in the future :joy:

But yes, my :brain: doesn’t let me sell those. And from time to time I do actually pick one of those up (for the bases stats and if worth enough go via TS to slam something on it). Actually got my 1LP spark relic thingie with a nice T7 critical multi on it for my sorc recently.

I guess it would indeed qualify me as a hoarder :grin:

And 100% yes, even if this would help me clear my inventory, it would still be a win.

2 Likes
112

I can answer from a video where i tested LP drop rates, i collected around 6000+ up to corruption 700 with no faction. 0LP was still the majority of the drops. Around half of the 0Lp drops became 1Lp above 200C, and about 1/2 became 2lp. Until i passed around 400 where i was getting a decent increase to 2lp. In all my tests i never had a 4lp and 3lp was still rare.

So to answer your quesrion then, MG benefits more from nemesis yes. As cof would alter this distribution. Maybe at some point i will repeat this test for cof

113

So 50% of drops are 1lp, 50% are 2lp & somewhere north of 50% are 0lp. Gotcha.

114

That’s kinda many 50% there, you might wanna check your math :rofl:

115

I am approximating, I went by roughly how many stacks of items I filled. If i had farmed 400 items as a random number it would be one full page + one row and a bit. I would then look at the next section aka 1lp. See it was roughly half a page + 1 bar.

You can see the video again. I wont count specific # of drops as it would be to much work. Gonna post you the link to the video should you choose to watch it.

1 Like
116

It would help your videos immensely if you would time-tag them properly as well as at least showcase a spreadsheet for the outcome.

I’m not watching 30+ minutes of video to get those stats unless something else worthwhile is said in it, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

All I would want to know are:
-total number of uniques
-percentile of ‘0’, ‘1’… uniques
-percentile of how many of each base dropped.

I don’t care for more as a viewer and gladly consume such content… but listening 30+ minutes to someone without knowing if I will get the information I want is not something I’ll do generally.

2 Likes
117

All right so, two takeaways.

As others said, you could have trimmed everything down to a 10 minute video. It’s actually good that you presented the way you tested, explained how the game decided which LP to drop etc, but everything after that could have been done with a simple spreadsheet.

Another point I’d like to make, take it as an advice, it’s quite confusing to talk about 50% of 0LP drops get “converted” to 1LP and then 50% of those get “converted” to 2 LP and so on.

As mentioned above by @Kulze, what is interesting is to have the % of all unique drops, per corruption range, for each LP.

Thank you for taking the time to do the test and I hope you take what I said above as constructive criticism :slight_smile:

My conclusions, based on what I see in the video, are:
1 - I’ll just pick up the most broken build so that I can get to 600+ corruption, as this is the only way to obtain any 4LP. Right now I am *&$%^ on EHG for their approach when it comes to punishing some classes/builds that finally break the 500-600 corruption barrier while Acolyte and Rogue consistently have OP builds which can and will net those players 4LP items. So yeah, I’ll roll a gdm Acolyte or Rogue, just farm and then get a good item base to roll other classes/builds.

2 - To me it’s clear, based on your results, that there is quite a significant corruption range (from what I saw up until 500+ corruption) where the CoF buff will simply “upgrade” a lot of the 0LP drops to 1LP drops but will not significantly affect the 2LP drops. So Nemesis, until 500 corruption at least, is going to greatly favor MG simply because CoF will “upgrade” the 0LP and at the same time the CoF buff not going to significantly increase the 2LP drops.

PS. I’ve started tracking down my own results, will probably take a couple of days to get some statistically significant results (100-200 drops). For now, I have gotten more than twice as many 1LPs than 0LPs (~250 corruption, fully CoF upgraded).

2 Likes
118

His video was made in 1.0. In 1.1, you have a soft cap for corruption. After 500c increases become minimal now.

3 Likes
119

Yeah, that makes things so much better.

120

@Kulze @DJSamhein

All right, I recorded the Unique drops in the past few days. While there is some margin of error, of course, since the number is not super high, I believe it is statistically relevant.

Seems that my “feeling” was quite right.

116 unique drops (mono: ~90% @ ~250 corruption / ~10% @ 100 corruption, dungeon (TS/LA): ~90% @ T4 / ~10% @ T1)

0LP → 36 (~31%)
1LP → 63 (~54%)
2LP → 15 (~13%)
3LP → 2 (~2%)
4LP → 0 (~0% :slight_smile: )

Turns out this CoF “perk” is quite the nerf, considering that CoF players will “waste” a lot of potentially very good uniques (good base for potential upgrade via Nemesis system). For uniques with an extremly rare 2LP chance to drop but a decent 1LP chance, this is actually going to hurt a LOT.

ETA: 116 not 117 drops, counted the XLS header too by (noob) mistake

1 Like