The Nemesis mechanic is great. It lets you turn 0LP uniques into something good and lets you get a legendary without running the god awful dungeon.
1LP uniques are now total trash.
Let us use uniques (e.g. 1LP uniques) in Nemesis. Remove the LP when it’s used (and stop it from adding LP).
I was going to go on a bit of a sarcastic rant about slippery slopes, then I read this bit:
I’ll just sit over here quietly…
This is just moving goalposts.
They already added a way of adding LP, which was completely not possible before.
And while I didn’t like the ability to add LP and I am still hesitent with liking it, it at least gave 0LP uniques with a good roll some value and potential to become very good.
But adding affixes or LP to super rare uniques like Ravenous Void or Orian’s Eye is kinda bad and weird.
1LP uniques are not trash, especially the already rarer ones for these the adding of affixes usually only add T2 + T2 for a total of T4 affixes (eitehr 2x T2 or 1x T4)
With a 1LP direct drop or nemesis adding 1LP you can get way mroe value out of it.
The Uniques that are more common usally get T6+ affixes added. Or 1LP-2LP.
What you are suggesting is another power creep addition that is just moving the goalposts so much. Tomorrow we will all around around with 3 Legendary Affix Uniques everywhere.
Is it really that wild? I still didn’t manage to get more than 1 affix on a legendary item via Nemesis, but I also did not reach empowered yet this cycle…
Anyways, the Nemesis feel kinda clunky, not very intuitive, and definitely not very much self-explanatory… It only tells us that if we put an item there and hit Empower, something will happen to the item… No clue what happens next, specially after experimenting to empower some 0 LP items two times and getting only either 1LP items or 1 affix legendaries back.
the 3 Legendary Affix Uniqeus was refering to when we get what OP wants. not how it is right now.
So far from my experience the nemesis system only adds 2 affixes maximum or one affix very high tier. The Tier of affixes it adds per empowerment seems to be highly determined on the effective LP level of the unique.
And not directly adding affixes, but adding LP seems to be very uncommon for rare uniques and usually onyl adds 1, amximum 2.
I guess it is theoreticall possible to get 3 or 4 LP for rare unqiues but that will be probably as likely as their regular 3 or 4LP drop chance, or even lower.
What I understood from the OP is not a way to add LP to 1LP uniques. It’s a way to place a 1LP unique and it will simply roll a random affix.
So if you place a 1LP unique there, it will simply add a random affix instead. I don’t see that as a power creep, especially considering the pool of possible affixes.
When you slam a 1LP unique you have total control over which affixes you get, so you’re sure that at the very least the result will be marginally better with the potential to be much stronger.
But if you allow a random affix the odds are that you won’t get a useful affix. It’s just something you can dump 1LP uniques on and see if anything decent comes up, rather than leave it on the ground as you do now.
Which means you wouldn’t use rare uniques, since you’d rather have control over the affixes. Instead you’d use the common drops like Calamity or Boulderfists for a chance of a decent affix.
Personally, I don’t see an issue with it.
If that is really what OP is suggesting that makes no sense.
The random affixes that are added are almost never better than a regular legendary craft.
2x T4 affixes is rarely better than 1xT6 affix being added to an item.
It would make the system more complicated with adding any practical benefit.
Then when explaining the system to a new player you need to explain you can add 0LP uniques or 1LP uniques, but not 2-4LP uniques. But for 1LP the affixes that get added will overwrite the LP and more LP cannot be added.
It is just a mess with no real practical use.
I wouldn’t restrict it to 1LP. If you put a unique with 0LP you have a chance of increased LP or random affixes. If you put uniques with LP, you only get affixes.
I believe nobody would risk bricking a really great and rare 1LP unique. Well, nobody would prevent you.
I would assume the OP is rather referring to those 1LPs one would never be bothered with taking them to Yulra (or whatever her name is, despite almost 500 hours I am yet to see her) because the expected outcome would not warrent the effort. My stash tabs are overflowing with these kind of uniques.
Be glad that I read the rest of the post…
Yeah, that was going to be the core of my ranty post that I didn’t do because of a latter sentence…
It depends on the RNG & you don’t then have to do Julra which is a not inconsiderable upside to the players that aren’t at your level of skill Heavy. Don’t forget, you aren’t normal (in a good way, just for clarification).
For you because you’re happy to run through a T4 Julra with ease. Not everyone can do that.
To be fair… as evolving games generally do 
Well, also to be fair… the usage of LP items in the Nemesis system actually has no major downside.
At least not with how OP presented it.
‘Let me use it’
‘Don’t allow it to add LP’
Currently as much as I know Nemesis can produce up to 2 LP Legendary items with the egg, which is a massive upgrade after all, albeit 99,9% useless with the affixes it gives you.
So using LP items on it to not add LP but instead have an alternative but fully random Julra effect… makes sense here.
The mechanical aspect of it could be to choose a random affix to put on with a random tier at the first empowering and a chance to upgrade that affix at the second further, making it an alternative to the weakest aspect of legendary creation… the base hunt.
We have that already, you just can’t have LP on them. Which is the topic here.
In OP’s case we could throw in 1 LP items (despite more desirable without a base they’re less so) and hope for pure RNG to give us a nice outcome as we desire.
It has no actual downside as it takes a more valuable item to enforce it to go through the same steps as a less desirable item, hence reducing its theoretical base value as it sets it onto the same stage as the lower valued item.
This… is good design actually!
Rarely I can say it here but because of this: Kudos @Aschere that would be one amazing and interesting inclusion.
They are when 2 situations arrive:
You have no base which provides an upside to you which can be slammed onto the 1 LP unique.
You encounter a Nemesis which would take a 0 LP item, hence not allowing you to use your 1 LP
In that case 1 LP becomes less valuable then 0 LP and that’s… a problem.
2 LP can never become less valuable as it’s more rare and you’ll likely find one only by the time you have several exalted items as well, which relates well with the perceived value intended in the system.
1 LP is encountered in such amounts though that they become less desirable then 0 LP items because of this new mechanic.
Yes, that’s a given.
Power-creep + natural goalpost shifting of a ongoing video game.
Look at PoE only 5 years ago and then say ‘yeah, the items are roughly the same’… because nah… nah not even close. Power creep is a thing and has to be taken into consideration, it’s also a mandatory aspect of a evolving game as players need a new ‘peak’ to achieve gradually as more mechanics get into the game.
It’s not negative until rampant, which several developers don’t understand. Neither stagnation nor uncontrolled usage are good… you need the right amount.
To be fair that means it’s fairly early for you to have a legendary at all before 1.1
But I get what you mean.
Which if you’d understood OP’s post… is impossible.
OP asks to use 1 LP items in the egg without the option to add LP to it.
Which enforces that this 1 LP item at most becomes a 1 LP legendary.
This mechanic would hence bring a respective upside and downside, which makes it a good game design actually.
To put into consideration:
A 0 LP item can have 4 different outcomes in the end:
1 LP
2 LP
1 Legendary
2 Legendary
As much as I know at least.
In his case 1 more state exists.
1 LP becomes 1 Legendary, period.
To alleviate the downside of using a more highly desirable item in the Nemesis system like this the chance for higher affix-tier hence would increase.
So while a 0 LP item often would become a 1 Legendary with a T3 affix the 1 LP input would in the same roll-range acquire a 1 Legendary with a T5 affix for example.
That’s the gist. Your chance for the high affix is increased and no chance for a 2 Legendary.
The same can be applied to 2 LP, 3LP and 4 LP items actually with the system, making it more universally usable without downsides. It’s a gamble mechanic versus a ‘deterministic’ mechanic. Hence more item input less quality output compared to Julra.
Exactly! Hence why I’m saying ‘good design’.
It increases your options in the game without a direct upside. Which is good. Desirable but not power-creep.
No, since in a well implemented version the chance for a high-tier affix is better. Hence 1 LP crafting - which is the eater of exalteds basically - would be more viable through Nemesis while desirable bases are then more desirable with higher LP.
It actually fills a void in the current progression system to a degree since the limitation is bases, not uniques.
Far before that, I’d like to see eggs (or some future mechanic) allow some level of empowering Set items, many of which have interesting effects but have such lower stats than legendaries that they are unusable.
That’s a complaint about the current Nemesis system and it’s associated power creep. We already have that today. It has nothing to do with this proposal.
Except this proposal is in no way power creep (and I specifically included the “lose LP and cannot gain LP” as a criteria to avoid 3/4LP uniques being generated). You can always run Julra and slam on an affix with more control which is 99% of the time going to be better than a completely random slam. A lot of players, like myself, find that not fun or a good use of time. This lets players have an actual usage for 1LP (or common 2LP) uniques that would otherwise rot in the stash while playing monoliths.
It is lower power levels than is possible today (controlled Julra slam) but gives players the ability to continue playing monolith without having to run the dungeon. Player choice is good.
I would love to be able to put LP items in the egg. For RNG sake just consider it to be a blank canvas imo. ie - you can lose LP sometimes too.
Also, I have uniques great than lvl 75 that require T4 Julra, but I can’t kill her so I can’t slam them. I’d love to be able to chuck them into an egg.
Hey, Mike just responded to a question on this matter during yesterday’s stream, if you guys are interested on his thoughts about it, starts at 21:15.
Thanks. Basically he acknowledged this is a thing that feels bad but then deferred to “but 1LP on some items is really good”. I do think this proposal would completely fix that issue. No one is going to through a 1LP Orion’s into Nemesis for a random roll. But a 1LP common unique, absolutely as its not worth it running Julra.
You, I really can’t comprehend Mike’s thought process there.
So:
Which all put together make me simply scratch my head.
So… why not allow it? Since it has no upsides it can be allowed, right?
Why limit the player interaction there if no downside is to it?
If I have 10 LP 1 bases but I ran out of non-LP ones… putting that inside the system is nice for me.
Having no exalted base to craft base, 9 doubles and a system which potentially could bring me a working outcome but I can’t use because the item is ‘too good’ and they want to ‘save us from ourselves’ in that case?
That feels like shit plain and simple
He did say why. Best summed up by AaronRPG in his digest:
You might agree or not with that, but it’s also a valid concern.
I would also like this sytem in. But I understand why they might not.