I just got a 2LP armour. I wonder whether any CoF ranks apply.
I doubt it, since that would affect both factions disproportionally, which isnât usually the way EHG does things.
Look, I donât mean to embarass you, for I respect you too much, but youâre wrong as wrong can be for you completely discard probabilities. This isnât humanities where everyone gets to have an opinion but pure math.
Letâs try with an example: say you want t7 hybrid health on a pair of Ravenous Void. You have a 1 LP version.
scenario A Nemesis (assuming you could use the 1 LP):
What do you think are the odds of hitting t7 hybrid health? There are 41 affixes for gloves (w/o experimental). I donât know if Nemesis can roll < t3 but it doesnât really matter here, we donât need to know this probability. It is certainly well below 1%, but for simplicityâs sake we can just call it X.
So your chance of success with Nemesis is X %.
scenario B Julra:
Now instead of just spinning the Nemesis wheel we need an exalted first. What are the odds to roll t7 hybrid health on a pair of (exalted) gloves? Can we agree on very similar if not identical to X %? It most definitely isnât lower, but I donât know the exact roll process.
So we assume X % for any exalted gloves to have our affix. We have a 1/4 success rate at Julra but we need one more variable which is the amount of exalted gloves we find - letâs call that Y.
This gets us a success chance of: Y x X % x 1/4
For Y = 4 it becomes X %.
This means, Julra provides the same chance for our outcome if we play to the point where we find any 4 exalted gloves. 10x the chance if we find 40 gloves, 100x the chance after 400 ANY exalted gloves yadda yadda.
It could even be any glove depending on the roll process - if it rolls rarity first and then forces an affix to t6+ or if it rolls affixes first and then takes itâs rarity from that. But it really doesnât matter here, the second scenario would only kill your dead-in-the-water argument more.
And it gets worse: When you find those exalted gloves with t7 hybrid health, you get to use forging potential to amplify the roll. Itâs likely you can get it to 10%. Rolling that naturally with Nemesis isnât as likely.
So please, when (not using âifâ on purpose) you get this, do the community a favor and edit those misleading posts 
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I know what youâre getting at, absolutely.
And youâre right with the direct probability.
So with the same thing, T7 hybrid health scenario.
Youâre 100% right about direct acquisition from Nemesis being basically non-existent there.
But thatâs not what weâre talking about here, I agree with you there after all.
Whatâs talked about is the change in usage while progressing, which Iâll get into with my follow-up example:
So, Ravenous Void
You can only get it from Gaspar and itâs extremely rare to get them in general.
You play along, get your basic 0 LP pair and put them on⌠all good and fine. Perfect, right?
So then you play on and get another pair, 0 LP, since 1 LP is not even a 5% chance (outside of CoF) so you start throwing them into Nemesis (or the old pair, depends on the one which has the worse rolls). Thatâs the common progression after all with the new mechanic, so you get random garbage out, maybe actually a working affix for your build which makes it a bit better then your 0 LP ones and you put them on.
So, from then on all your 0 LP drops of the gloves are basically âworthlessâ to you directly, you use them solely in Nemesis since they have a theoretical better outcome then the ones you wear. All fine and dandy until then, but you get only âgarbageâ for the moment.
And then, the moment arrives! 1 LP drops! You finally got it!
Got a base? No? Keep em! Save it up until you have! Those things are rare after all!
Get your base, farm on⌠still nothing from Nemesis in the meanwhile.
You get to Julra, excited, 25% chance to get your T7 Hybrid health⌠and in our example⌠youâre luck! You hit it! Congratulations!
And now?
0 LP drops are not worth anything, theyâre for Nemesis anyway already, right?
What about 1 LP drops now? You got the outcome. Do they have value to you? You now need 2 LP, there is no upgrade⌠only 2 LP.
And thatâs kinda harsh to get, LP 2 Ravenous Void is around 1 in 4000 drop-chance after all.
1 LP Ravenous void at least is around 1 in 30. So possible at least.
But with Nemesis⌠2 LP Ravenous Void suddenly are a thing which becomes viable to procure.
You throw 0 LP Ravenous Void inside until they get at least 1 LP as outcome, not legendary but LP, which it can provide.
But what should you do with 1 LP? Theyâre valued higher then 0 LP⌠or should be⌠but they donât have that function which 0 LP does.
If you play solo hence youâll grab every 0 LP Ravenous Void eagerly to use them in Nemesis.
And 1 LP? Youâll suddenly throw away. You got your outcome, thereâs no improvement possible.
0 LP becomes more valuable then 1 LP after that progression, which is a nigh guarantee as the alternative is a 0,032% chance in our scenario derived from the drop-chances (133 LP 1 items during the 4000 tries for LP 2 relates to 133/4000 which is 0,032%)
That shouldnât happen.
Thatâs why Iâm saying âlet us use LP uniques in Nemesisâ.
Doesnât make the acquisition vastly more likely, after all you already need 4000 Ravenous Voids to drop.
133 of them will be LP 1 by that point.
Which means 3867 Ravenous Voids without LP flow in the same time into Nemesis.
Only then 2 LP will be acquired (with 50% chance at least, but thatâs the percentile which is easiest to work with).
133 extra rolls? Not worth it.
But imagine you get that 1 LP unique which already is extremely rare and then youâre disappointed because you hoped it to be 2 LP⌠or 0 LPâŚ
Thatâs the only thing which shouldnât happen.
A swift change with miniscule gameplay effects but instead solely to re-enforce the value-perception of LP to be âmore LP is betterâ in 100% of the cases, which isnât the situation currently.
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But your posts on that topic are misleading. You write like snow in november and flying hippos winning the world cup are on the same level of probability. Maybe you donât mean that, itâs hard to imagine given your PoE experience.
This isnât technically true, they are also a random drop with a very small drop chance similar to Red Rings. I got one in an echo and one from Gaspar. One got low tier health reg and the other one 1 LP through Nemesis. I did not hit though.
I think you need to play more to have a better grasp at these odds. By the time you find Ravenous Void with 1 LP you most assuredly already have any t7 you might want.
Maybe you remember the discussions we had about exalteds being the bottle-neck in endgame. This was for cases where you need 3-4 affixes, potentially on a specific base and not just the t7.
Now weâre at flying hippos that identify as cougars
Yes, this hypothetical point exists, when I have a unique where 1 LP is the effective end stage and I have already slammed the ideal t7 affix (weâre talking thousands of hours here) for my current build. I would still rather take 1 LP to try for another t7 affix. But for the sake of your example, yes, at this point the odds of improving my build with a 1 LP Ravenous Void are zero compared to the 0.00000⌠% of improving them through Nemesis from a 0 LP version that either needs to hit 2 LP or a better roll of the same affix.
Ohhh, mis-read them, sorry, well⌠something new learned, or better old stuff re-learned 
My bad there.
Both possible, both rare. Could be lucky and find the unique first and the base later or the other way around.
I give you that the hybrid health base is more likely to be found given the sheer rarity of Ravenous Void.
It was just for the sake of the example and doesnât matter much anyway.
And it does for every unique, weâre not talking about unicorn situations here but generally happening ones.
The less rare a unique becomes the sooner it happens, itâs just the natural progression.
And the less rare a unique becomes the more likely it is that the relevant best-case base isnât available and an upgrade from your already established item is less likely to happen.
Hence the situation where 0 LP becomes more viable to drop compared to 1 LP is something which nearly every build might experience upon longer play-times.
And as said, itâs simply a fix to align the progression system and value perception, not to âfix major issuesâ.
Also⌠2 LP Nemesis outcomes are around 1/100 or so as much as I saw? Generally they happen still. Not often but they do. Itâs nonetheless a viable upgrade route.
The whole Nemesis system is a tacked on system to the existing one, all of it is just pure chance and bonus. If we go against the probability aspect overall then the whole system itself has no existence reason in the first place outside of the first random 0 LP uses there, becoming worthless after.
It does matter, my point on this entire topic is relevance. Relevance as in situations that actually happen ingame.
I am not against putting in 1 LP items, itâs just (mostly) pointless. Either youâre wasting Nemesis by putting in a low tier item that you can easily get way better without Nemesis or youâre wasting a big ticket item that you shouldâve taken to Julra instead.
The one big use-case for Nemesis are these big ticket items that drop with 0 LP and for those I am grateful for having Nemesis.
I grant you a point during leveling. Maybe you find a 1 LP Hammer of Lorent at lvl 5 and simply canât do Julra anytime soon. Getting any random affix in that case would beat the 1 LP. But again⌠what are the odds?
Regarding this, pretty sure it depends on the specific uniqueâs LP odds. I had some lvl 20 Acolyte gloves outside the egg go from 0 to 3 LP in one empower step. I have only seen 2 LP on a rare item once.
Yeah, agreed⌠itâs âmostlyâ not needed, mostly pointless, just an extra bit.
The only major relevance it has is for value perception and to uphold the value progression mentally for LP, the realistic amount of good results from putting in 1 LP items is after all fairly unlikely in comparison to 0 LP by that time.
And yes. since it can happen during any situation while progressing, having a 1 LP rather then a 0 LP it can cause issues.
The only reason why itâs overall brought up is because âit feels oddâ which⌠yes⌠it does.
The reason from EHG was basically since it could lead to negative outcomes⌠but to be fair? If someone wants to be an idiot and put a 4 LP item into the system with a grin then itâs not EHGs job as devs to keep them safe from themselves at the cost of adjusting the whole value perception and causing fringe-case issues along with it. That simply shouldnât happen even if itâs only a minor thing rather then a major one at least.
Likely, but we donât fully know yet, the chance is definitely there for LP upgrades to align directly with drop-chance.
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Thatâs it 
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It is not entirely on the subject but since we discussed it here already:
So I learned in this thread that in order to use an item to upgrade an LP unique in the eternity cache it has to have the same base type.
Today I found this: https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzBsIFiA
Looked it up in order to find its base type but it has none. More specifically it is used for unique items only and cannot drop: https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/IIwBjYNnI
Is there still something I am missing?
The type is the first line âhelmetâ, not the second âgladiator helmetâ, thatâs subtype.
So any Helmet will do? Then why was Kulze taling about base?
Ask him but know he answers with a book 
Not sure what made you confuse, but saying this is correct⌠For slamming legendaries, you need a LP Unique and an exalted item of the corresponding base (do not mistake base for type).
Bases are: Body Armour, Helmet, Gloves, Dagger, Shield, etcâŚ
And some types for those bases are: Adept Robes, Gladiator Helmet, Leather Gloves, Bone Dagger, Targe, etcâŚ
Itâs actually the other way around. Types are the slots, bases are the subtypes of the type. Which is why people say that itâs hard getting an exalted affix on the right base (the one with the best implicit).
I would assume Kulze said that because helmets are an outlier, in that you canât use a rogue helmet to slam on a mage unique.
But as far as I know that is the only restriction. If the helmet isnât class restricted, it can be used with any exalted helmet that isnât class restricted as wellâŚ
Yeah, thanks
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Donât think they exist
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Of course they do.
Just to name a few.
Itâs actually the Body Armour that are all class restricted⌠Only ones that are not, are the ones used in Unique or Set items.
Which however is irrelevant for the eternity cache as the implicit doesnât transfer in the first place.