Launch Trailer : Tombs of the Erased

Yes, and every single genre can be combined in a viable way. And games can be expanded to include other genres even if it hasn’t done so beforehand. We got after all games which work fantastic despite combining at first gaze very unfitting genre types… Rocket League being a prime example, soccer with cars is a little bit ‘special’ I would argue :stuck_out_tongue:

The same way goes with implementations. Path of Exile is a prime candidate for examples there as well, and a prime showcase on how H&S game design doesn’t have to be limited.
Not everyone for example likes rogue-lites, but the ‘Sanctum’ League implemented exactly that, in a good way too. Tower Defense with Blight, initially ‘city management’ style gameplay with Harvest (before massive changes as it flopped, but the idea was great) and more.

Do you think everyone liked those? Absolutely not… but there’s still a substantial sub-group of people which play those respective mechanics. Blight is well liked, Sanctum as well, both are as far away from the core-gameplay loop as it can be.

Now imagine EHG implementing one of those mechanics into LE, basically 1 to 1 in the style fitting for the game, with proper lore connections. Would you want to re-run 30+ minute lasting rogue-lite rounds for dozens or hundreds of times to acquire the specific loot you need which is only unique to this specific mechanic? Or would you enjoy playing a Tower-Defense for hours upon hours? How about needing to do both?

Well, the point is, in CoF without a supporting system to alleviate the demand to run those as a basically mandatory thing you’ll get many many unhappy people. There’s a reason why GGG provides ever further incentive to allow a comfortable SSF progression but… never saying it’s the ‘intended way to play’.
EHG outright made it so CoF is the intended way… but MG is also the intended way, so they need to make both work equally.
That means while providing the varied gameplay styles going along with several years long implementations it’s not allowed to piss of those which want to play CoF, hence acquire stuff on their own… while also not pissing those off playing MG, hence needing a functional economy.
The variance in content type will piss automatically people off if something meaningful is behind it that can be build defining, because then people need to engage with it despite hating it to progress their character. And if they don’t provide meaningful rewards at the end then you autmatically get ‘content bloat’ because those mechanics loose all meaning. Soulfire Bastion is a perfect showcase for that. It has nothing you don’t get somewhere else (outside the boss-uniques, which don’t drop always anyway) so it’s ‘worthless’ as soon as the content which provides it otherwise outpaces that.

Things like experimental affixes for example won’t ever become ‘meaningless’ no matter how long ago the mechanic is made, unless something taking the space of those affixes comes along. But exiled mages? Always great, always something to seek out. Bastion in comparison can be deleted simply and basically nobody would care.

The same goes for Arena. Outside of the boss-drop loot at the end it offers nothing. Hence nobody cares about it. Imagine it dropping unique loot solely acquired there between the waves and you got yourself a group of people suddenly playing it. Some saying ‘it’s their most enjoyed content’ suddenly while they’ve never even looked at it before that day with guarantee.

It’s extremely hard to implement mechanics and keep them ‘up to date’ when you have to balance some sort of baseline reward level whenever something new comes along. But when you got unique drops only available at that content… well… what are you comparing it against? There is no benchmark to decide ‘it’s not worth it’ or ‘it’s worth it’. People need the stuff and when it’s rare then people seek it out highly, if it’s common there then people will nonetheless run it to acquire it because it’s needed.

The game prepares you beforehand via the traps already present in the trials you need to finish to even access it. Also the traps are mitigated by defenses, they just do percentile damage, so EHP doesn’t mitigate it, you need to reduce the specific damage type instead.
It’s actually got a proper ramp-up and introduction phase for it. People don’t like it though because you’re enforced to run it as core progression is stuck behind it which you can’t trade for.
The exact thing which will happen in LE over time if it’s handled the same way… oh wait… welcome to Temporal Sanctum! Exactly 1 to 1 the same issue. People complain left and right that it’s a bother to do it, it’s annoying and not fun.

Nobody would complain if you get for example charges or a specific resource, you can sell that resource to others and hence aren’t mandated to do that type of content, instead allowing to do your personally favored type and acquire the resources through that in some way.
For MG as mentioned it’s selling that stuff and buying the other.
For CoF it would be the cross-drop mechanic as mentioned.

Because as you’ve properly said: ‘Everyone needs to do it’. But it doesn’t need to be ‘everyone’, it only needs to be ‘you’ and it needs to be ‘mandatory to progress’ in some way. The moment that happens it becomes not a choice but a chore.

It never will be. That’s an impossibility to implement. Dozens other games have tried, not a single one suceeded with that to date.
Personalities and flavors are too varied, there is no ‘unified’ enjoyment after all. So why try to enforce it when there’s options to not enforce it but still keep it meaningful… especially so given that letting that part be a choice will not only enhance the enjoyment for the player but also provide the option to be more creative with each separate mechanic?

Ohhh, that’s good to know. Exalted items are actually more valuable again. Though… I guess we won’t ever see exalted champion items properly anyway :stuck_out_tongue: The chance for it to happen is just a tad bit low with the current item generation, unless we can actively generate that sealed affix in some way on an item. Which I doubt has been thought about.

Without knowing anything else about it, I would assume that these items drop from the new champion bosses. So they would be farmable.
Meaning getting them would be similar to getting experimental items from mages.

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Yeah, so basically ‘never’.

How often did you drop a exalted experimental item from a mage which had a high enough tier of the experimental mod, workable affixes and a decent base? :stuck_out_tongue:

The item unicorn situation again.

I don’t think any of my builds so far ever required an experimental affix. Maybe the volatile zombies one a long time ago.
But I do have a bunch of exalted gear with experimental affixes. A couple even have the experimental affix as a T7. And I don’t really farm them, either.

Strange that the supporter packs pricing increases by $10 but the packs all contain the same items just with different skins and the higher cost packs do not include the lower cost pack skins. That seems very bad and is not in line with the traditional supporter pack model. it is basically saying if you are a person that likes a purple magic look pay us $20 more but if you like a nature look you have your look for $20 less.

Not quite sure how that is going to play out with customers/gamers/supporters.

I’m so hyped right now xd

3-4 months for new content is the standard. How is that arbitrary? As I said 9 months since the last season (which was 5 months after 1.0 mind you) is unacceptable no matter the circumstance. Halo Infinite also had this problem, and that was from a larger studio.

Once LE is in a more stable state I am very confident thigns will return to these regular schedules.

I should have no doubt about that. But again, the 9 month wait severely soured the mood. Especially since they said it was going to be in Q1 then said it was in April.

Nowadays it is no longer arbitary for many studio. It also is only “a standard” for some of the studios in this space, GGG as the first studio in this gaming space implemented it and it worked out very well for them. That doesn’t mean EHG has to do it this way. There are so many factors that play into it.

My opinion about your opinion is also unacceptable, so I better not go into details about that.

Nobody likes how it is going atm, not even EHG probably likes it, but if it is what it takes to brign LE towards a btter path into the future than so it be.

If all of this is so unacceptable move on and weither leave the game behind or return once there is something to return to.

Too bad that’s precisely what EHG said they would do in the first place. Regardless, it still shouldn’t need to take them 9 months for new content.

Gee sorry for not wanting the game to turn out like Wolcen. If it means anything, I’m still returning once the season drops, even if the vibe is still soured.

But making demands and saying it is “unacceptable” does not make it look like you really care what is best for the game.

You just sound like a angry customer yelling at the company for not doing something they wanted to do, but can’t do it yet due to a plethora of reasons.

If you really care for the game and want it to succeed demanding content every 3-4 months no matter what is NOT the right thing to do.

This is a lose lose situation anyway, either EHG does shove out content in that tiemframe, then if its not up to the quality and standard peopel want it to be, they will be angry and waiting for a longer period of time will still make many of them angry, but this at least has a better chance to make the game still succeed in the far future.

Well, I’ll join the bandwagon there and agree with him though.

As a live-service H&S game developer studio… it is unacceptable and it did sour the mood.
Does that now mean I don’t care about this game because I speak out that things haven’t gone in a way which the playerbase of this genre expects and has hence paid for? Yes, there’s tons of reasons, very very good ones too for it! But that doesn’t change that as a customer we’ve been let down by the company and they lost boatloads of goodwill for that, something which they’ll have to make up for with 1.2 providing a darn good quality rather then only the quantity we’ve seen it’ll have.

And that’s still up in the air for when it releases.

Very fair, but also not something which is your problem as a customer now, is it?
If we take it in a simple way making your customers happy is relatively straightforward.
Are the general expectations related to your product fulfilled? Does it have adequate quality? Customer is happy.
One of those 2 not happening? Customer is unhappy, and rightly so as well. It doesn’t matter if it’s fair or not there, it’s EHG’s job to provide it, and ensure it happens. And if not they face the music, definitely not needing someone to defend them when they haven’t been able to fulfill their own responsibilities.

Brilliantly put.
I don’t get it either.
:woman_shrugging:

I am not defendign EHG, I am just shaking my head at people complaining in such a away at thing that never have been promised.

EHG never gave strict, conclusive timeline, they alwas gave suggestions for hte most part.
Not fulfilling them is not unacceptable… it simply is a disappointing, but nothing people should be that crazy about.

EHG does not have any responsibilities or obligations.

You don’t need to promise everything. Things are naturally implied to happen by precedence and normalization over any sort of area.

If you got a roommate and that roommate always feeds your cat when you’re gone… so you go on a holiday and come back to a shriveled starved husk of a cat corpse… then you’ll be fairly pissed, promise or not. It was implied after all from actions happening beforehand.

Not a single person gives a single shit - plainly spoken - if EHG promised it directly or not. It’s expected, not doing so would need a statement of excemption rather then one including it.

But your example doesn’t hold up here, EHG does not even have any history of regularly providing 3-4 month scheduled updates. The only regularity in updates that we ever had was the 0.7.X Patch cycles, which were much smaller in scope. Since 0.8.X and 0.9.X we never ever had any regularity at all. It was always “when ready”.

So people being upset and mad about it is beyond me.

Being disappointed, of course I understand, I am disappointed myself in a lot of these cases.

The overall H&S live-service sector has always had seasonal content. It started with D2 even already with the ladder resets and there is no severe outlier existing to date. Not even D3 and D4 are outliers there.

So the perception basis comes from there. People expect 3-4 month release frames, substantially higher amounts are a net-negative in the mental landscape of the customers in this area hence.

These are all examples pre-release. Release is a general paradigm shift telling the world ‘We are ready to content with others under the expected conditions provided’. One of those conditions simply is ‘regular reliable content drops or at least economic resets’.

And terms like ‘mad, upset, disappointed’ doesn’t matter in this case. The customer has a negative perception either way, that’s the core crux there. Not following this - no matter the reason for it - without mentioning it explicitly (and even then likely to a less degree) will cause people to value the product less… as they’re used to being given it from others already, reliably and repeatedly. No matter the reason.

I like the news and everything from showcase but what happened to Ancient Era story and Primordials content? Did you scrap that idea or…

New campaign chapter and primordials was pushed back. Possibly in season 3 we’ll get them, though there’s no real roadmap yet for what season 3 will bring.

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I really love the Bone Curse skill, but I still don’t know which build can push 1000+ corruption. Could you share a build planner with me?

How long it has taken is unacceptable. Mike even said players have made it very well known that 9+ months is way way to long of a wait for a new season. And that the community as made that very clear. Mike also said that they wont be going this long without a new season again…

Even on his streams people pointed this out and this is what mike has said in response. EHG said the goal is 3-4 months. Its only fair that a huge chunk of the players would expecte that time fram not 9+ month almost a yr before a new season.

Tbh imo if they wanted to release seasons on there own terms EHG should have kept there mouth shut about the goal of 3-4 month seasons

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