Still you talk about RL only and avoid that I talked about games as well so don’t even try to cover your stubborness up 
.
So, if the devs were happy with the rate if gear acquisition (drop rates) pre-trade, then they added unrestricted trade (which is clearly going to make it quicker/easier to acquire gear, that’s, like, its only function) and in order to maintain the original (pre-trade) gear acquisition rate they then nerf drop rates across the board, for everybody (because HC has the same drop rates, damage, etc as SC), how the ever-loving #### can you say that unrestricted trade has no effect on ssf?
Therefore
If you flip it from “anti-trade” to “pro-trade” (or at least pro unrestricted trade, there are plenty of people who would be ok with some form of restricted trade).
Have you not read the comments to this effect I and others have made? Do you think we’re all stupid? Or do you just not care?
TBF, loopholes are exploited when they become known. Its just human nature.
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They wanted to get practice already, so when the economy is unleashed the could play the game the most efficient way and play the market 
That is one of the side effects of having more open markets, because everything you do is measured in “currency” and hours played vs. how efficient you were.
Maybe some day. But if it does came back, expect some cashgrab MTX shop
The rights were bought by Trion Worlds back then and Trion Worlds were acquired by Gamigo.
So if you are familar with gamigo you know what they are about 
(Gamigo is one of those companies that I hate for being german as a german myself 
)
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Wait until you discover that gifting already creates ways you can play to get items much much faster, and we already have this exact problem of interacting with the gifting system, and doing awkward annoying, high grief potential stuff, to get items fastest.
You can’t implement any system that players won’t work out how to use to the best degree they can. Theres either 0 trade, or a more open trade system, just so the devs can remove the annoyance and add some qol, becuase people will engage with whatever is fastest, might as well try make it fun.
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No, I just wanted to learn the game and the classes and since I was getting loot and unlimited storage, as long as I had the gold, I could experiment with different builds. I was hoping when the fresh start happened on release, I would have enough game knowledge to pick a good starter build and evolve from there. However, as it stands, I’m simply not willing to start fresh in an SSF environment and the time I have invested into the game feel like a complete waste. Ultimately, regardless how much fun I had in these 600h, it simply left a sour taste. I am not going to play the game, period.
As for the rest, this thread devolved into a few people starting a flame war with players legitimately criticising the developer choice of scraping trade from the game and I really don’t have the interest to respond to them.
I totall understand your POV.
And its totally warranted to criticise.
But I am interested, what is the root problem here, that wants you (and a lot of other people) to have trade?
Do you feel that working for all the items you want is too hard or takes too long or invovles too much rng?
And I know there are a million different things people want or expect from trade, but now that is why EHG started the Trade Survey yesterday, to understand what the pro-trade people want the trading to have at least, while understanding what the anti-trade peopel want to avoid/have at most
I think one of the most common things people want from a trading system is, that they fee llike what ever “valueable” item they find, they can make value out of it, even if they don’t use that. And that is a good reason, but there are other ways than trade to achieve that as well.
And if people want trade because of getting certain items more deterministically or quickly I also feel like there are other ways to achieve that as well.
I don’t have Orion’s Eye or Ravenous void. I can’t target farm them and I can’t trade for them. These items are literally rng locked for me. I grinded for about 150h in corruption 300+ for Salt the Wounds and it was a min roll. I have never seen a 2nd one. A good rolled one is RNG locked for me.
On top of that I’m simply not willing to start from scrap, knowing the time investment needed to re progress to the same point I am right now. (Trade absolutely speeds up the gear progress and I don’t find this as a negative).
On top of that, I have around 30 stashes of great items, I’m not using, but my friend, who is playing the game much less can’t benefit from my stash, which is absolutely silly. It removes the point of us playing together, as I’m far more geared than him and going into the same content feels like boosting.
These are my major gripes with the current system.
This is absolutely true. I have 2 Omnis and I don’t use them. They just sit there as a shiny rare drop and nothing else.
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Ok lets break this down.
First off lets start from the beginning.
I really want to know if we are on the same page.
This is not meant in a condescending way.
Do you know all the tools that are at your disposal for increasing your chances in getting specific items?
- Blessings (Combining Item Type + Unique chance blessings)
- Timeline Exclusive Echo Rewards (like Unique/Set Amulets or Gloves)
- Certain Bosses having higher chances of dropping certain items? (Like Ravenous Void has one boss, that has a more likely chance of dropping it)
- Playing the echo web within a timeline a certain way to get full benefit out of Vessels of Memory and Vessels of Chaos
Using all of these for certain items and combining some of these methods greatly increase the chance of finding desired items.
Now the 2 examples you gave are 2 of the absolutely rarest items in the entire game.
Both are not build-enabling are there is no reason that you need them
Salt the Wound is decently rare and probably one of the rarest build-enabling items, so this is definitely one outlier case.
But now I ask you again, did you use all these above mentioned tools to increase your chances?
If you did, maybe you thought you use them the most efficient way, but mabbe you didn’t understand them properly and didn’t use them to their full potential.
150H in 300+ corruption for Salt the Wound sounds either very unlucky or you didn’t do everything you can, to increase your chances.
I farmed similar rarity or rarer uniques dozens of times (for multiple copies for LP chance) within a fraction of that time.
Like Death’s Embrace (same rarity), Paranoia(even rarer) and Raven’s Rise (a little bit more common).
So even after all of that, there are 2 things I think that can be done to improve that specific scenario.
Better tutorialisation for players, how to use game systems (like Monolith for Blessings and target farming capabilities)
And if all of that still doesn’t statisfy people, why not improve or add new target farming methods in different slots, so there are multiple systems in parallel or stacking with each other.
So you want to speed up the proccess, because you did it before?
Why not giving feedback about how much you dislike how long it takes doing this multiple times (for example when cycles coem into play)
If you and your friend are so far apart in your progression, you either need to help him out in his content or you try to “boost” him or you create a new character/build that you can play with him until he reaches your main’s progression level
Yes and that is stuff were I agree, having those rare items, but not needing them feels bad.
We definitely need a system to convert Unique or Exalte ditems, that are realyl good into value, evne for solo play.
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I have a character that is at 300-400 corruption across the monoliths and I generally farm on it for items, whos weakest piece of gear is T21, while most of my webs are lines of rare rewards from one end to a reset point and back. I have spend a lot of time creating a good farm environment. I hope that answers your question about being on the same page.
Just because you have a character that is already very high in progression, doesn’t mean that you fully understood all the tools at your disposal.
This is not about bragging who has the best and highest character.
This is about understand the game systems.
Since I feel like you didn’t understand them, with the data you have been giving.
I don’t know what to tell you . I’m talking about legit RNG locks in the game and you are shifting the blame, as if I haven’t done enough to overcome them, when in reality there is no overcoming an RNG lock of 800h/drop, which is the current average drop rate of Orion’s Eye. R.Void is even worse. It’s funny when I see the survey telling players “we need to reduce the drop rates if we have open trade” and I’m sitting here thinking: “you have items that drop once on 800 hours of play, how much more of an RNG lock do you want to make?” .
It’s wierd talking to people like you, who either don’t see the issue of RNG locks or see it, but in some twisted logic think it’s ok.
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Alongside this the problem is just like, drop rates currently arent balanced, the gearing progression curve is terrible. We need drop rates in general fixing, and then we could make informed opinions on what reduction would be acceptable. Right now its like, end game, drop rates dont need dropping with trade, everything before, drop rates need dropping without trade anyway.
Then going more finely into it, r.void, orians eye dont need changing with trade, some boss drops might do if they’re tradeable, etc… LP, if tradeable, will need adjustments to chance with trade on some items, but not on others.
Its way too blanket to make any sense to talk about it that much right now as a negative thing that comes with trade, becuase right now the drop rates are bad, too much in some places, too little in others if trade isnt coming.
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You are basing your entire argumentation on two of the absolute rarest items in the game, which are not even mandatory for any build.
The term “RNG lock” sounds way to drastic for this.
There are 262 more unique items in the game. What about them?
Do you have issues with getting these top tier rarity uniques or do you generally have a problem with how uniques drop in LE? Because I feel liek that would be two intirely different discussions.
That is not my intention here. This is not about whos fault it is, I just want to create a good basis on what we can discuss, because I have a very different experience than you. So either we play different games or there is some fundamental difference between your and my playstyle for farming some of these uniques.
Where do you have those numbers from? What was the sample size? What strategies did they use?
As mentioend above, I find the term “RNG lock” way to drastic, especially for the examples you gave for items that are not even necessary and are considered chase items for truely min-maxing a build.
You also still have not answered my question, so I am still unable to tell if we discuss on the same basis.
It is important to understand, that I never said the loot progression and general drops in LE are perfect. But they are not as bad as many people think they are, which often times led me to beleive, that they don’t use all the systems to their full advantage.
The loot progression is apalling lmao, many people who have progressed multiple characters through to t4 share the same sentiment. If you think its fine, I have to ask, and trying to not be condescending here, if you’re playing efficiently, are you focussing on the right parts of the game for the loot you need? Are your builds set up correctly for farming efficiently at various points of the game?
Unless you mean post t24, then I have to ask what is your general approach to gearing up at that point of the game? Because if its not bad for you there, but it is for people generally viewed as the best players in teh game, you must surely have discovered something no one else has.
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Heavy is explaining there are many ways to increase your odds of getting RNG in your favor. If you aren’t taking advantage of every system in the game, your chances of getting drops could be lower. Some of the systems that push RNG in your favor aren’t well explained. It isn’t about blame.
Also, the two rarest items in the game are what are known as “chase” items and most players are never going to see them. That’s just how they’re meant to be.
If you added an open trade market with current drop rates, these items would flood in. Not tons, but they’d be there and easily acquired. If it takes one player an average of 800 hours to get an item, and you have a pool of 1000 players, that brings the average to something like an hour or less (anyone who is more familiar with that kind of math, feel free to correct me). Yes, they’d have to decrease the drop rates.
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I think you re talking about something else here.
In the discussion with @Resist it is about unique item acquisition, which is quite different from the general item progression (like getting your first T20’s → first few exalted items (with maybe some unoptimal affixes → few BiS exalted items with all usefull stats → all exalted items).
I think up until ~level 85-95 when you complete all timelines once in empowered the item progression(for rare/exalted) is actually quite good.
Beyond that when you really go into farming for specific slots the progression definitely because a sluggish and unenjoying.
But I would not really call it “appalling”.
Once you entere the stage of getting exalted items for literally every single slot the progression is definitely not as good anymore, but I think in Last Epoch’s current state, that doesn’t really matter that much, because there is no content that needs you to have such good items.
Pushing corruption so high that you “require” these type of items has some more issues besides just the progression being bad.
So while talking about it and giving the devs feedback, I still think its not as urgent.
This are issue that only veteran players have or even see.
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General kind of implies, well, general.
Maybe some day. But if it does came back, expect some cashgrab MTX shop
KKKKKKKKKKKKKK as long as I can play my Iron man or Hulk again, I’m ok with that KKKKKKKKK although I don’t how I had the patience to put both with Cosmic Prestige, that thing took ages KKKKKKKKKKKKKK It was a really interesting game. Can’t say the Raids were amazing, but the rest was on point, like red control rooms. I was addicted to farm that shit over and over while listening to really psychodelic things. I miss that time. It was a good game for sure.
Quote from kickstarter: Fear not, friends will be able to freely gift items between each other as long as they have been friends for a reasonable amount of time.
That’s all I want even tho if this is free trade in a nutshell so I’m okay with some restrictions to it other the “You can’t trade the item with your friend because he wasn’t sitting on your lap while it dropped.”.
They aren’t chase items. Chase item means you have a clear way of chasing and getting like most famously - Head Hunter in PoE (now days Mageblood). R.Void and Orion’s eye aren’t chase items. They are RNG locked.
Is it??? Because I have not seen a usable exalted item from monoliths in ages. All of the exalts I have gotten in the past 5-6 that weren’t legendary fodder came from dungeons. The exalted item drop rate in Empowered Monoliths even at 200+ corruption is a joke.