And you spent 600 hours on something you HATE?
Exactly what I thought KKKKKKKKKKKKK 600h in and hate SSF… I will quote Maven (PoE) here and say: HOW?
Also Marvel Heroes rip
I miss that one. Would be really nice if one day it come back but chances are zero 
I still don’t understand why drops have to be balanced around trade. The existence of trade doesn’t introduce more items into the game world… the same amount of items drop with or without trade being there. It simply gives players an outlet to exchange unwanted/needed drops for wanted/needed drops. And, even after the exchange takes place, the exact same amount of items exist in the game world.
Sure, it might mean I can acquire the items I want a bit quicker, since I don’t have to rely purely on rng to get them, but how is that any different than if I got super lucky, and my desired item dropped on my 1st farm attempt? Does the game suck because I acquire a Wings of Argentus on my 1st kill? And, how is it any different than if I farmed 25 attempts, got frustrated, and then purchased it via trade, using gold/items I acquired during those 25 attempts? How does that suddenly break the game, and ruin it for everyone?
And when would killing mobs not be the primary method of obtaining gear? Players would still have to kill/farm to acquire the gold/items to make be able to afford the transactions in the first place. Not to mention, during the process of farming, I’m sure items will drop. What world are we talking about here, where players just exchange currency they get simply for owning the game? And where are the items coming from? Unless EHG is backdoor-brokering RMT traders, then the game is still being played, monsters are still being killed, and items/currency are being acquired through those 2 activities.
Sure, people can cry about the small % of people who might spend some cash on RMT to afford something, but how does that hurt anyone? The existence of farmers doesn’t change anything for anyone, other than possibly tinkering the value of items on the market, which still doesn’t affect anyone’s game experience, if they don’t actively choose to participate in trade. And, once again, if people are worried about their virtual epeen sizes, on the ladders, EHG can always run ranked seasons on regulated servers that could have a differing trade experience, just like any real ranked game does (even POE’s reward-granting leagues are run separate from the general leagues).
Yet POE is as successful as ever. Oh and D2R is doing quite well consider how old the game is.
I don’t get why people white knight to the extent they feel the need to make stuff up.
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Tell me how a bot hurts your playing experience? Did the streamers using Item Editors also make you curl up on a corner and cry yourself to sleep over how they ruined your gaming experience? This isn’t a persistent MMO world, where bots are actually interfering with your ability to kill a mob, complete a quest or farm a trade skill resource. You obviously don’t like trade, so simply don’t use it. Limit yourself to just gifting between immediate friends, or people in your groups. Problem solved.
Hell, bots mean purchased games/accounts. Which equal more money in EHG’s pocket. Which equal better service/support. Which equal more content releases, better servers, etc. For fuck’s sake. You’re actually complaining about additional money coming into the game, which would actually improve your experience? All because of some boogieman, that would have zero impact on your gaming experience. Get over yourself.
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I don’t understand how some people have such a sense of entitlement that they feel they can dictate how a company chooses to handle a players interaction with and use of their IP. Up to and including the cavelier attitude towards random people being able to exploit it directly via selling actual virtual items that don’t belong to them. They may or may not care about that, however it is not you to decide. The level of entitlement is off the charts. I would not mind trade but I know from 20+ years of playing online games that any loophole will always be exploited and always turn certain parts of online games to crap. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. In addition the lack of respect to the devs by some of the pro trade side continueing to call them liars is appalling. I have even more respect for them now seeing the tact and grace they are handling this with.
This is not the answer.
If trade is available, it will ultimately become the fastest way to obtain items. Choosing not to engage in what would become a core game system is very limiting. For many players, obtaining items via trade is far less fun than obtaining items via monster drops.
“Play SSF” is also not an option because in this group of players that want item drops to be the best way to get items, there are also players who want to play multiplayer.
Using myself as an example, I prefer item drop from monsters, and I prefer to play with other players.
Yes, I can choose not to engage in a trade system. It’ll feel terrible when I know I can just go get upgrades from trade super easily. Then, getting those items from trade won’t feel good.
Whether I choose to engage in trade or not, it feels bad. Ultimately, I’d get bored of the game faster and quit playing sooner.
There is no simple answer. There are players who want different things. I can say “all players want X” because everyone I know and talk to, friends and streamers alike, prefer not having trade. This is not representative of the whole.
It doesn’t matter how many posts are made or how many streamers and youtubers argue for trade. They don’t represent the whole.
Just in case, let’s not forget that EHG has a vision for their game, and that vision has never included open trade. Their vision has included a limited form of trade, with drops primarily coming from monsters.
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Yes, it’s totally the answer. No different than people who don’t like grouping, but grouping being a more effective, efficient or faster way to farm bosses. What are their options? Either a) group and farm more efficiently or b) don’t do it.
Not doing something is always an alternative.
Trade being the “fastest way to obtain items” just isn’t entirely true either. That all depends on the market, now doesn’t it? I mean, look at POE. Some items sell for 20+ mirrors. You can’t tell me that farming up 20 mirrors is the ‘fastest’ way to obtain items… much less if you want multiple items that are in that price range. The fastest way, would be to learn how to farm/craft them yourself. But even then, you still have to play the game, quite a lot, to get the required crafting mats.
So which is it? “Faster” is subjective, and depends on how you are looking at it. Will trading become a more specific way to obtain certain items? Perhaps. That all depends on rng luck, doesn’t it? I might come across a bunch of items while playing other characters, and not have to trade for them. Or, I might sell my unneeded items as I obtain them, and then use those funds later to buy them again, if I so choose. Either way, I’m still playing the game, and I’m still getting drops from killing stuffs. The only difference is that now I’m not getting frustrated after than 40th attempt and not getting the drop, and I actually have more use (other than 500 gold) for items that drop that I don’t need.
The answer is actually very simple. Open up trade, and allow players to play the game in a way that is fun for them. Trade, contrary to doomsayer predictions, does not break games, has never broken a game and has never caused a game to fail or lack fun. Nor has it ever ruined the joy of having items drop. Quite the opposite can be said for not having trade, where all items are completely worthless, unless the player has a specific need for it. I doubt anyone has ever gotten overly excited about an item dropping, that they had no use for, regardless of how rare it is. Usually it’s just “well fuck, why couldn’t that have been Item_I_Needed instead!”…
And, as for EHG’s vision. I’m old enough to remember when that vision involved a bazaar. But yeah, tell me again how trade was never in it…
Also, I just have to address this, because it’s the crux of why MP and only ‘gifting’ is so appalling:
Yeah… kind of like forcing people to group with others in order to take part in the abomination that is being presented as ‘trade’? Thanks for helping prove the point.
I’m going to respond to a few things directly. Starting with:
I specifically said open trade. If you’re not referring to open trade then disregard.
If you are, however, here’s the exact part of the Kickstarter that is relevant to this.
Last Epoch will have a Bazaar system in which players will be able to anonymously buy and sell items from other players using the gold they’ve found on their adventures. We are designing this system very carefully to ensure that while the Bazaar can be a fantastic way to find certain items, it will never overshadow the rewards of engaging with the world yourself.
Emphasis mine. This quoted statement from Kickstarter is very clearly not open trade. In later blog posts on the forums, they expanded on the Bazaar system, and it was made even more clear that it would not be open trade.
Yes, the sentence immediately after this quote does say free trade between friends, but that is not open trade. That is free trade between friends. Which, if I’m being honest, I would prefer, just not at the cost of open trade.
This is something that is being balanced. If you are playing the mp event this week, you’ll notice that enemy health is scaling higher per player than it did last weekend.
If I’m remember correctly, EHG has stated that they don’t want multiplayer to completely overshadow solo play. A coordinated group would be a little faster, while an uncoordinated group might be slower. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong, please) Which is clearly not how it is now, and from what I’ve seen on streams during these mp events, partying is way too strong and absolutely needs balancing. Just playing SSF is of course not the answer here either.
It doesn’t depend on the market. No matter how you look at it, the pool of available items for any one player is exponentially higher with trade, unless it has heavy restrictions. Even then it might still be exponentially higher. RNG is RNG, but if you have a pool of items from 10 players available to you, that’s still a lot more than you can find by yourself. Sure, they may not all engage in trade, but if just one does, then that’s already a lot more.
Opening up trade removes fun for some players. That doesn’t necessarily allow more people to enjoy the game. It allows some people to enjoy it, but at the same time it lessens or removes that joy for other players too.
I never stated it would ruin the game. It wouldn’t ruin it for me. It would be less fun for me. Yes, others have stated this, but I haven’t. I believe either decision will make players unhappy, and neither decision will ruin the game.
I enjoy Diablo 3 a lot more than any other ARPG out there aside from Last Epoch.
Lack of trade made the game more fun for me and all my friends. I’ve gotten tons of great items in that game that I had no use for, and I was actually excited to get them.
Clearly, your point of view is not the only one. Your opinion is also not wrong, but it’s not the only correct opinion.
I also want to make myself clear. I’m not advocating for or against trade. That’s been done. I’m also not saying you’re wrong for having your opinions and preferences.
I’m trying to bring to light the fact that there are people who enjoy games in other ways.
Neither side is wrong. It’s impossible to please everyone.
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Tried to stop breathing… didn’t work.
It’s still up to EHG to come up with a follow up announcment Mike mentioned in a friday stream. Untill then you still run in circles :). Then again you could descide to stop arguing the topic again and again untill some news are there… but that would be a boring thing to descide ^^.
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I don’t know, ny mother-in-law is doing quite well at that. She’s been not-breathing for a good 2+ years and everybody else is a lot happier for it.
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This statement has no defense, really. The only argument is like that famous yearbook quote “It is not enough that I shall succeed. Others must fail.” The only “fun” the anti-trade people get are taking trade away from others. Open market has no impact on their SSF experience. Just don’t use the trade system if its there.
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I don’t want to play SSF.
I want to play with other people.
You were never promised an open market, your continued insinuation that you were has no defense, really.
In your opinion. That opinion, like everyone else’s, is subjective. Maybe don’t speak in absolutes when it comes to opinions.
Don’t even try he don’t even get demand and supply and thinks it’s a loophole that is exploited in games rather then beeing a staple in trading online and in RL in like forever ^^.
Yep, one persons crap is another’s treasure. Crap must be great, a billion flies can’t be wrong.
There is that reference to real life again. This is an ARPG, not real life.
I just wanted to make sure you understand that this is happeneng EVERYWHERE but I give up you win and I stop wasting my time ^^ with someone who don’t want to understand reason as hard as you do ^^.
No need to give up 
I understand your point, however my point is you can’t compare ARPG and real life. Real life has lots of other things that an ARPG does not, like Governments, Courts, etc…