Is it Time? Focus on MULTIPLAYER

Feedback and Suggestions
54

Is it any more reasonable to expect people to read dozens of different threads to get the same amount of info?

If you want to peruse or leave feedback, it is easier for everyone involved to do so in a single location. Most issues players face are not unique, so there is no reason to have easily answered questions spread out over several discussions that may be missed by the devs or anyone interested in following along when they can all be piled in one place while more nuanced reports can be dealt with individually.

I get that this is off topic for the thread, but nothing kills the flow and usefulness of a discussion board like being spammed repeatedly with the same easily answerable questions. A megathread is a useful tool to mitigate that, and there isn’t any reason it should be avoided because the 1000th iteration of the same question isn’t deemed worthy of being it’s own thread.

/rant over

3 Likes
55

It actually is due to how human nature and forums work. It’s not “ideal,” but it’s reality.

I already laid out several reasons.

This is why a FAQ is more appropriate.

56

It would be nice if people did a quick search before asking questions, even if they didn’t use the correct search terms at least they would have tried.

A FAQ would probably be a good idea, but that still relies on people reading first then asking questions later.

1 Like
57

Well, if they aren’t going to check/read a FAQ first, I don’t think a megathread would make sense either, lol

58

Let them first improve the optimisation, because it is tragic.

3 Likes
59

Thanks (for the most part) for all the great discussion!! I think it’s healthy and interesting. Personally, I’m not here to try to pressure the devs to release something they don’t feel is ready, or to force them to divulge information. What I am here for is to try to help/encourage them on the best path forward to deliver the best game in the long run.

I have no idea what their resource allocation is like, but if I’m choosing between a programmer making the map function better or changing the passive tree from vertical to horizontal (?) vs. optimizations for MP, I’m gonna focus on the MP. To me it’s a much much more critical function that will further affect multiple other parts of the game.

As others have said, all sorts of things will naturally be forced to change once MP is in the picture, which means work/resources are being used to fine tune things that are more than likely going to have to be refined again.

The “when it’s ready” argument is not satisfying to me, because many issues will simply not present themselves until the game is in wide(r) release. A good example: look at chat. BTW one could argue that chat is already a big piece of MP, and it’s been a part of the game for a long time; no one seems to have minded that it wasn’t perfect when it was first available… And note it still has issues come up from time to time, even in this latest patch.

One thing that these discussions should also include is the multiple facets of MP. I think some people are only thinking about the MP core gameplay, and so naturally their biggest concern is always graphics optimization, etc. But that’s just one part. Class synergies, grouping logistics (with friends and/or strangers), database structure, trading, economy, server loads, cheat prevention… I’m sure there’s a lot more I haven’t thought of. I wonder if it wouldn’t be beneficial strategically to release some of these in pieces to lessen the pressure of getting everything right on a single MP patch. For instance… just introduce private group chat, or a persistent database for items, or… trading!

1 Like
60

The horizontal thing i get it. But are you being serious about the rest?
Did you realize the whole endgame system changed? Is that something they shouldnt had done aswell despite many people not liking it? Then they would have add multiplayer but nobody wants to play it because 1: the endgame system is not fun and 2: the performance on multiplayer is even worse.

They also tried to optimize the game. I think that should be done before MP dont you think?
I think some points are fair that you make but it feels like on other parts that you just want MP for the sake of it being multiplayer despite the performance being bad.
Even the video that they promoted showed that it wasnt all that smooth. I saw stutters there. Is it strange for a company to want to iron those kind of things out first?

It feels like you being unreasonable with some of your statements, but maybe thats just me.

3 Likes
61

I really do understand the sentiment of wanting to have MP in this game, and I agree that certain aspects of the game will necessarily change with its implementation, but I also think the logic is backward that they shouldn’t get the core systems in place and working properly first. You don’t furnish a car and then drop the engine, brakes, and steering column in. It doesn’t make sense to do it that way.

62

If PoE is to go by this system doesnt work at all in multiplayer,

You will play with friends and potentially you wont progress if you are inside ‘their’ timelines and not yours, I find it hard to believe they commited to the system so now they need to make sure it works for up to 4 players

What if I join someones game on a character who hasnt completed Ending the Storm and the person I play with is in that timeline…how is that going to work because I can tell you right now it DOES NOT work if you look at how PoE handled this

does this look familiar?

1 Like
63

You could potentially gain stability in that monolith if you’ve already unlocked it. Then if nothing else, you’d be able to jump right to the quest echoes. Hopefully they allow the quest progress (including quest echoes) to count for everyone as long as they are on the required step, so you make sure the party leader is behind everydoby else in the quest so that once the leader catches up everyone’s quest progresses.

1 Like
64

It does look fmiliar because it used to be one of my favourite leagues at the end when POE fixed changed a lot of stuff.
Iam still sad that its not core, its one of the most unique systems ive ever saw with an option to choose your own path in many ways.

I do share those things that you worried about in this post. I hope they will let everybody progress there quest echoes for example.
I dont think you can actually make a system were you share the echo system itself.
It would be cool though if there would be an option to start a new echo with a friend were you get shared progression (also with the tiles expanding) :smiley:
So if you would want to finish it on another day and do it with the friend being the leader, it changes nothing. So what you see i see aswell in my hideout or enviroement if that makes sense. So even if my friend would be offline i can still see that echo etc.

I dont share your opinion about MP being here already because, the endgame wasnt good enough yet as i mentioned before. And again performance…

65

That’s funny because that is EXACTLY my point. The difference is I consider that multiplayer IS a “core system” of what is being advertised as a multiplayer game (see quote below if you disagree). If this game was being sold as a MMORPG would we even be debating this topic?

Here’s a reminder of what the devs have said about MP:

JC: Multiplayer will be one of the most, if not the most, exciting releases for Last Epoch and as a team, we feel good about the social systems we’ll offer the community. Players in town hubs will be able to chat, show off their gear, take advantage of a unique trading system or party up with 3 other Travelers to conquer the dangers that await in Eterra. To ensure the best playing experience, multiplayer will consist of server-side characters playing in a server-authoritative environment.

The fact is that the features that have been listed are really not too far from an MMORPG. Grouping with friends, grouping with strangers, an evolving economy, persistent (server side) items/characters, trading, group/guild chat, social areas for interaction… these are all core features of an MMO experience. FWIW, Path of Exile is listed as a “persistent online action MMO.”

Also @meesterg do you honestly think this new endgame system is “done” and will need no changes when multiplayer is added? Wouldn’t it make more sense to develop and test and optimize the endgame with multiplayer systems already enabled?

TLDR: If people/devs don’t feel MP is a core system for this game, then maybe that’s the debate we should be having.

66

It isn’t. Not only is the comparison to an MMO a poor one due to the fact that this game will have single player that is off the servers, but most of the features you’re talking about are just basic features of any Multiplayer experience, not just MMOs. Further, the idea that it would be compared to an MMO in the total absence of a persistent, shared world space is way off the mark. Sure, some games stretch the definition quite a bit with more focus on instancing, but I don’t think any honest person would consider PoE to be one.

So no, MP is not the “core” of the game. It may later become the commonplace focus of it, but the core is all about the classes, leveling systems, crafting, variety of content, and combat. Without a properly established core, MP has no place and no future in this game.

67

I never said that the new endgame system is done. Far from it, they just released it and will probably change things… thats why the game is in a test state right…
Let me ask you: Do you really think that if EHG first released multiplayer before this endgame patch that EHG wouldnt have shot themselfs in their foot while knowing people werent happy about the endgame system?

People would probably have massively played LE. Because many of us are desperate to finally try a new finished game that actually has potential. Then they find out that the endgame system is not that fun and indepth and quit the game.

Would that be the better option in your opinion? Showing it to even more people in a new enviorement (multiplayer) and new problems in multiplayer beside the endgame they already not enjoy.

I can already see the whiney posts on reddit just like they do in every other game. Is that the type of publicity you would want for this game if you were the devs? I certainly wouldnt since i hope this game will succeed since iam enjoying this game.
And finally there is a new contender in this genre after many failed titles.

So you would risk the name of the company and the potential that this game still has with first putting multiplayer in instead of revamping the endgame system were everybody literally will grind normally for many hours? Also knowing that in singleplayer the performance were pretty bad you would still first go for multiplayer?

I do see it as a core system. Thats why i prefer the game being stable and having good endgame in the hopes of people being happy with the game, so i can play a really fun game for many years to come. Iam sick and tired of those rushy things and overhyped games and people who try to rush devs to finish there games etc.

I come of a time were it was normal to code for many years and many titles of that time are still the pillars of many genres. Hence some of them created there own genre.
Diablo 1/2 red alert 1/2 warcraft titles, counterstrike and so on.

I prefer the its done when its done route since i saw better games came out of it back in the day. Everything nowadays is rushy, low time spam, run faster, release the game devs!
This game feels unfinished devs (despite people pushing them and asking to release it in the first place).

It has become a strange gaming world in my opinion and in many ways not for the best considering the many failed titles unfinished games and content behind DLC. Lootboxes, the overhyping the complaining about how long everything takes. Complaining about the complains complaining about the word complain. Nah i stop here haha. Iam getting old.

Its like a fine whisky or a fine wine. The longer you wait the better it tastes most of the time. There is also a dutch saying that my mother used to say.
Haastig spoed is zelden goed. It rimes in Dutch but not in english.
It means Rushing is most of the time bad (explained short). But hey thats my 2 cents on this.

2 Likes
68

This is precisely what happened to Cyberpunk. It got mad hype, some of the fans got impatient, the publisher got nervous, the game released too early, it was unfinished, and now it doesn’t have the reputation it rightfully would have deserved.

69

I kickstarted this game because online and multiplayer were part of the core vision for the game.

5 Likes
70

You seem to have been bathed in hot water. Be patient there are still many things to improve before the MP is introduced. Everyone would like to play with buddies already and it will happen one day if EHG decides it is the right time. Besides, he doesn’t want to play with people in 30 FPS.

71

CD Projekt promised too much and failed to deliver many things. I am Polish and most of us have lost trust in this company. But I hope that one day they will redeem themselves, because slip-ups happen to everyone. The important thing is to learn from them.

72

Same here!

Without persistent online features, the game fits into a different class of ARPG. There’s nothing wrong with that, but anyone familiar with the genre knows there is a sharp dividing line between the classics:

Diablo 2 (and 3) and Path of Exile
vs
Titan Quest and Grim Dawn

I won’t belabor the discussion trying to explain the fundamental differences of just how much more complex the first subset is. And please, this is not a bash of TQ/GD. I love those games as well, but for different reasons.

73

How about including the condition in that quote?