It’s craftable and as soon as you get everything you you can go for it. In this stage of the game it’sdoable by tacking a ten and be done with it. In D&D you can get everything you want with enough time spent in certain campaigns.
You don’t have the guarantee to drop anything you like or craft anything you like in LE.
I LIKE it when something is available to get there are means to get it outside of grinding for 1k+ hours because this is artificaly stretched content from my point of view. and a bit of a joke if you still call an item with such low drop rates “still obtainable” when it’s more relastic to win in a lottery.
if it’s there and obtainable in a given ruleset and you kill the char just because you don#twant chars to have legit obtainable items you are the problem not the item. It’s your table so houserule it and play with the players you have left because you change the rules that’s what is called cheating in PC games iirc :p.
Everyone has the right to different opinions. I can say exact same about you, you are the problem. How easy was that? Those seeking material possessions that have no meaningful value is a large issue with humanity in general. Let’s respect each others differences and if you feel cheated that is on you, I will not feel cheated because I already calculated the improbable find is only worth it if it actually happens.
Like the 2 mirrors from PoE I KNOW EXACTLY where and when it happened. We need to let LE grow and then as content is added move the goalpost as necessary.
Pretty easy you didn’t even call something like powerplay or char progression over all or whatever. I don’t care. BTW no offence :).
What i care about is simple: If it’s obtainable make it obtainable with more or less effort. Creating systems that tell you “there is this mysterious item, it’s so good you wont belive it! Oh you asked what you need to do to get it? no idea noone got it, it’s like almost imposible, it’s easier to get hit by a lightning… twice in a row… on a sunny day without any clouds in sight… but maaan if you have this item…” That is the sad part for me.
If an item dropn in 1/100 trys and each try takes 10 minutes thats a LOT of time to get something. It’s still an okay timeframe but 1/1000 or 1/16000 is pretty stupid since the early 2000s.
Banging my virtual head against newer and harder opponents, getting rewarded with better gear to make my build stronger so that i can bang my head against even newer & harder opponents… Rinse & repeat…
hopefully its 1) fun & entertaining banging my head against opponents and 2) I can realistically improve my character & gear at a pace that doesnt leave me frustrated that I can no longer bang my head against newer harder opponents.
When 1 and 2 are no longer possible or there are no newer harder opponents, then the game is over for me.
That’s the problem. It wasn’t ever stated as if it’s a chase item to grind for. It was always said that it is technically possible, but very much improbable. 4LP Ravenous Void and 4xT7 Exalted items aren’t supposed to be “obtainable”. They were never advertised as such. It is just in the Merry Christmas Land daydreams of people with their obscene character planner dreams. I’m sure there have also been many people that used item editors to put them on a character. I don’t see the point in that. At that point, why not just put some arbitrary T56 item on each slot? T100? All power level cutoffs are arbitrary and people complaining about where that is in this game, or any other, is equally arbitrary. People won’t agree, and even if some get their way, it still won’t be enough for others. It never will be.
I am honestly interested… I understand what you and everyone is saying here but I still dont have an answer to my VERY simple question from anyone - if something isnt supposed to be obtained by normal means, why does it exist at all?
I don’t really see this as an issue of design, rather a practical consideration.
As a programmer, why would I specifically code an exception when the system already behaves the way it is intended?
4 LP Ravenous Void are supposed to be unobtainable and the current implementation of the LP calculation makes it unobtainable for all intents and purposes, there is no need of giving it special treatment.
Due to coding. It actually takes extra coding to exclude the items.
I have answered this before. They are practically unobtainable due to the mathematical function of compounding rare rolls. For example, a T6 affix could be equivalent to rolling a 20 on a D20. Upgrading that T6 to a T7 could then be rolling a 20 on the “upgrade” roll. That would make a T7 affix a 1/400 chance. Now add in another T6 on top of that and it becomes a 1/8000. Another T7 would be 1/160000. Those aren’t real numbers in LE, but just an example of what I mean with compounding difficulties.
These items are “in the game” only insofar as they haven’t been blacklisted.
I understand the background related to the simple fact that there is a bit of mathematical code that works for all drops based on values input by the devs for specific items and drop rates BUT it doesnt actually answer the question directly… it provides an EXCUSE as to why the items exist.
I do not agree… Having done some development myself and worked with development teams on much bigger projects, this approach is like not trapping for exceptions in their code because they dont have time to do so. Thats gonna bite you in the arse.
My question remains… and I am of the opinion that if the devs are afraid that these kinds of items (4LP uniques & 4T7 type exalts) are so dangerous / game breaking that they need outrageously low drop rates as to make them virtually impossible to get, then they simply shouldnt even be possible in the first place…
I agree with @vapourfire in that its pointless to make them exist if they won’t exist in the game.
I’m sure there’s more to it, there always is. But as it stands it just seems… weird. Strange. So, here’s to hoping something is given to us from a dev, and not from someone guessing/assuming/etc. It’s appreciated of course, just would rather have something concrete on this one.
I think you guys are interpreting too much into things. There propably isn’t a scientific basis for the decision to implement it as it is. The devs just might have thought “Oh, it’s cool to not exclude 4xt7 items from being able to drop. They are unlikely to drop, but maybe it happens at some point and this might be very exciting for that person and something that will go viral on social media.”
They exist simply because the base item exists as well as the mathematical code for calculating LP/Affix Tiers. They interact in such a way that the odds of getting certain very rare items with high LP/Tiers becomes astronomical.
They didn’t sit down and say “hey, lets put this item in the game that nobody will ever get”. They put the base items into the game and they put LP and Affix Tiers and their roll calculations into the game.
Sure, they could probably tweak the “effective level” but that goes into other balance areas.
So, again, they didn’t actively make the 4LP Ravenous Void exist. It exists as a result of the base Ravenous Void existing in the loot calculation system that was created. They would have to actively make items not exist, not the other way around.
After thinking about this for a moment, I don’t agree with you. But I’ll keep this in mind!
Much better! I assumed this was the reality but since I don’t know for 100%, I wanted someone to chime in to confirm. Still waiting!
This doesn’t change things really though. Having these systems in place is wonderful, but if I -did- want something like a 4lp RV/4xt7/whatever the hell else, really don’t feel like I’d be getting it.
“But you CAN get it!”
No, no I can’t. Not with these ‘astronomical’ rates. Ah well.
I guess my whole issue with the availability of exclusive highest god-tier items is at the beginning of the life cycle of the game. I think that those percentages will come down over time and the item-to-power dynamic will balance out. But if you give everyone the best to start, what else will there be left to work on? Then power creep sets in and then the NERF bat and that horrible cycle starts. I am under the impression that as the game goes live and as time and more added content this issue will sort itself out, if not then change the 0.0000001 to 0.0000005 and call it a day.
Thanks for your replies. I’m really looking for very specific information so sticking as close to the question asked really helps the most. Answering adjacent questions is interesting but if you could keep it as close to these specific questions as possible, that would really be awesome.
I would like to ask another narrow comparison question. I have written out the stats for two hypothetical D2 items and two hypothetical LE items. I’ve intentionally left out what item types they are. I’m sure the eagle eyed among you will be able to tell immediately but I hope we can just look at the stat differences in a bubble. Each item has the same stats as its counterpart. The quantities of these stats are different.
D2 Item 1
D2 Item 2
Defense; 444
Chance to Block: 40%
10% Chance To Cast Level 15 Confuse When Struck
Level 15 Holy Shock Aura When Equipped
+21% Faster Hit Recovery
+30% Enhanced Defense
+164 Defense
+10 To Vitality
+50 To Life
+51 To Mana
All Resistances +6
14% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Defense; 376
Chance to Block: 47%
10% Chance To Cast Level 15 Confuse When Struck
Level 15 Holy Shock Aura When Equipped
+29% Faster Hit Recovery
+30% Enhanced Defense
+219 Defense
+10 To Vitality
+50 To Life
+51 To Mana
All Resistances +18
23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
LE Item 1
LE Item 2
+25% Block Chance
+789 Block Effectiveness
+100% block chance against Nearby Enemies
14 Health Gain on Block
+13 Melee Physical Damage
+59 Health
+58 Mana
+25% Block Chance
+1554 Block Effectiveness
+100% block chance against Nearby Enemies
28 Health Gain on Block
+9 Melee Physical Damage
+177 Health
+42 Mana
I don’t want to get into the specifics of how rare each of these items are relative to each other or how rare each of the sets are to each other.
Questions:
Would you consider the D2 items to be the same item? Why?
Would you consider the LE items to be the same item? Why?
Please don’t try to figure out or post if they are actually the same item.
Please don’t post what you think the items are, I’ve been intentionally a little sneaky in defining them and I will update the post with details of what they actually are in a while. I also fully understand that this is a bit of a contrived comparison. I’m attempting to isolate specific properties to find the line. Once I have a few answers, I’ll ask the question again with the rest of the item details revealed.
Edit: I’m going to compile a better set of questions to properly collect data with. For anyone who was curious, the D2 items were a Dream Troll Nest and a Dream Monarch. The LE items were a normal Bastion of Honor and a 3LP Legendary BoH created with a T26 (7/7/7/5) exalted.
I’ll be back in a different thread with better examples. Sorry to derail this one again.
I would consider them the same item in both cases due to the unique modifier on them. In the D2 case, it would be the ‘confuse when struck’ and the ‘holy shock aura when equipped’. In the LE case, it would be the ‘+100% block chance against nearby enemies’.
All the rest of the stats just seem like roll variation. Or potentially balance changes I guess.
The D2 item seems to be the exact same item just rolling with different affix ranges. The numbers are not that far away from each other so it looks reasonable to me that it’s just roll ranges of the mods.
The LE item is the same base but the second one is a 1LP Legendary item. The Block effectiveness on the second is only obtainable with a legendary craft as the original unique has not that high of a roll range.
Edit: Whoops… there are 2 more affixes that also arent in roll range of a normal affix. So its propably even a 3LP legendary.
Ok, but aside from trying to do the detective work to find out what item they are. If you didn’t have that information, would you consider them the same item. I really want to stress that this isn’t a test to see if you know what item they are.
