Yea, it’s hard to describe and I wasn’t really sure the best way to put it. I’m trying to figure out where the line is for what is considered a different item. Like if you were describing a build and were saying that you need Woven Flesh unique armour to be your chest piece, you’re really describing any Woven Flesh regardless of the rolls. For the purposes of describing what item you need, a slightly above average rolled one is essentially the same as an average rolled one.
So I created 2 items that are more different than that but took away some identifying factors like what colour the text of the name would be written in to see where that line was and used what I thought would be a good control option from another game. I might do up a bigger version of this with a few dozen LE only comparisons if I think it is going to be useful.
So I guess with that extra information, would you consider the D2 and/or LE items the “same item” as each other (within their own categories)?
While it seems you are attempting to be vague to get at certain answers, I think some people in here would very much consider a 0-LP item to be different from a 1-4 LP item. Their line on when they become “different” may vary.
I think in the above example, if you used that LP to add affixes that weren’t on the original item, it would have gotten different results.
You also can’t compare like stats like this and get a fair comparison, since this completely negates the players freedom to choose their own stats that LP offers. That’s a very, very powerful advantage with LP.
I fully understand that. I can see that I was not clear at all. I will regroup and make a proper post with better examples. I wasn’t trying to prove a point or anything, I’m just attempting to collect data here.
It’s monarch vs troll nest, both are elite level shields. Monarch is generally considered the best in most situations. They have different block speeds too so it’s not entirely 1:1
It’s your game, so you get to make the crafting system however you want. If you want it like Diablo, make it like Diablo. It is a popular game, after all.
I’d take a different approach entirely, but that’s not for this thread.
That said, comparing two items with the same abilities but different “rolls”, to me, would almost always be “the same item”. When making builds, there are a few factors that “enable” builds, which I can summarize as follows:
A wholly unique ability that otherwise doesn’t exist
A “pool” of stat points to achieve a stat “threshold” across the full gear set.
For #2, a build might require 100% crit immunity and 100% block. I can get those in two items, or I can get them across 6 items + my build tree. I would consider those as two different builds, especially if I had to consume build tree and item affixes that would or could have enabled a whole other “ability” key to the build concept.
However, if I can achieve my build concept with just 2 items, but my build would be slightly stronger if the rolls on those two items were a little higher, maybe allowing me to add a tiny bit of health or mana or something non-build-defining elsewhere as a result, then that’s just “Min Maxing” not build-defining and the better-rolled items would never be something I consider “different items.”
So, really, there isn’t a definitive answer to your question. Sometimes, higher rolls on abilities make or break a build, sometimes they don’t. So, sometimes they are “different items” and sometimes they aren’t.
Yep, that’s about thresholds, really. Like with the old Puncture/Shadow Dagger build. You needed to get 200%(?) Shadow Dagger effectiveness for it to really work properly, so getting that threshold was the priority. You didn’t even consider the other stats on the item(s), unless you could get that threshold with them.
Ah yeah, I misremembered that. I never got mine up and running with the 250%… was busy with another build before I found Boardman’s guide on that one, and the patch was the next day or 2 away :\
To the question Mike asked: Yes, both are the same item.
You value their unique properties over anything else, mostly 100% chance to block nearby enemies, or L15 Holy Aura when equipped.
These properties set these items aside from others in the same category, the ones with higher rolls are superior, still the lower versions fit the role of “good enough” in order to make a build superior.
Yes, they are the same item, with different rolls, both qualify if you “need” that item.
On topic:
I feel the way LP work should be less of a elaborate math formula and a more direct approach:
For example: “Ravenous void” (this is an example)
10% chance for 1LP (1 in 10 would have LP, 9 in 10 would not)
then 25% chance for 2LP inside of that 10% chance (compounds into 1 in 40 chance for 2LP)
then 5% chance for 3LP instead (compounds in a 1 in 800 chance for a 3LP)
then NOTHING: 4 LP is blocked for this item.
That would be a goal, quite ridiculous, as getting one at all is hard, but could be a goal, and something to dream for while grinding for it, or leveling another character.
Still you have to smash an appropriate exalted, there’s no “Perfect” item (because 3 T7 perfect rolled affixes in a normal item is not a thing), but you have a feasible target.
In the same fashion, obtaining a second or third exalted affix should be easier, specially when the item is forced to be exalted. This would make dual exalted items a feasible target, instead of a very rare occurrence that is bound to be useless anyways.
Those are my thoughts, anyways. Knowing that an item is possible mathematically but impossible practically when the number is too low (or high in the 1 in X format) to even comprehend, is something that shouldn’t exist, I am not really bothered about it, but in understand some people are.
While the ideas are fine, they still just incrementally push the power higher. Once those become commonplace, the same “outcry” will happen again for the next level of power. There will always be those players that want to be “better” than others and flaunt it. They want the power creep for themselves but not others. I mean, what would be the point if others were able to get it too? They wouldn’t have anything to flaunt at that point. Thus the cycle continues.
The lowering of Forging Potential on gambled gear and normal/magic gear makes crafting a mid-tier upgrade (that is 3 tier 5 affixes you desire) incredibly difficult right now. In fact, it’s upsetting most of the crafting system as I’m now just hoping through multiple layers of RNG in terms of a rare item with the correct https://www.routerlogin.net/ pikashow
They did this so that you’d want to get most of your gear from mob drops rather than just “farming” the gambler. In addition to capping bases from the gambler at lvl 40(ish).
This is so that when a higher quality item drops its more useful. Previously, the best items to craft on were magic due to having more open slots.
While I don’t think this has any real bearing on the merit of the crafting system, since truly perfect items in this game are, for all practical purposes
As @Llama8 has already pointed out, these changes were made to incentivize drops over just crafting perfect Rare items from Common or Magic items, which was quite easily done in the previous crafting system. However, this has left Common and Magic items basically useless in the mid to endgame gearing process. Mike discusses this unfortunate side-effect and the problems faced with making them more useful within the current crafting system in the dev stream below (watch from 1:21:40 to 1:28:22 – the video should start at the correct time).
There aren’t any plans to change this currently, but they might become more useful sometime in the (probably distant) future. What that looks like is anyone’s guess.
I think it’d be nice if you could “recharge” the FP on an item by gaining experience while the item is equipped. So in essence you can keep working on an item indefinitely but you wouldn’t really be able to do that for the purpose of trading, at least not trading en masse, because the potential to do so is gated by how much time you spend “actually playing the game” with that item. Thoughts? Apologies if this is a bad place for this, it’s my first contribution to these forums. BTW, love the game.
