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# Last Epoch Forums

Here is my specific example.

Shaman with Thorn Totem, base cost is 18. Specc’d into following nodes:

• Forested Expanse (3): Mana cost: +75%
• Grove Mind (1): Mana cost/addl Totem: +15 (total +30)
• Totemic Wisdom (5): Mana Efficiency: 75%

Lastly, I’m holding two Tempest Maw axes with -5 and -6 Totem Mana cost respectively (total -11).

Option 1: 18 + 30 = 48 * 1.75 = 84 * 0.25 = 21 - 11 = 10
Option 2: (18 + 30 - 11)) = 37 * 1.75 * 0.25 = 16
Option 3: (18 * 1.75 * 0.25) = 7.87 + 30 - 11 = 26.87
Option 4: Bueller? Bueller?

Well if you have the character and youve done the math what was the answer?

Its just in the build planner atm, haven’t rolled it up yet. I am guessing its Option 2, but I am not sure how it works exactly. I might scrap it if it’s Option 3 or worse.

I couldn’t find a more updated source on this, but this post gives you an idea of what mana efficiency does.

If this formula is still correct, then none of your formula’s are correct.

Additionally, I would think that the rest of the calculations behave similarly to how they work for damage, but I’m not sure. But, with this information, you should be able to test that theory with concrete values and figure it out.

I have a guess of what it might look like, but I don’t want to speculate.

You could also look in the game guide there might be more information there.

Game guide doesn’t specify anything different for mana costs, which is why I think generally option 2 is correct. But the mana efficiency is…um… really badly worded/presented.

If its true, then Option 2 becomes:
Option 2: (18 + 30 - 11)) = 37 * 1.75 / 1.75 = 37

Which would mean I wouldn’t even bother making the build at that mana cost.

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Based on this post, it would appear any flat mana costs (i.e your 30) is added first: Arcane Ascendence +5 mana cost incorrectly applied to Static orb

It seems like mana efficiency is calculated AFTER the mana cost is determined, so I think the formula would be

(18+30-11) * 1.75 = 64.75 (rounded to 65)
65 / 1.75 = 37

EDIT: Opps, didn’t read whole thread, just saw Zaodon came up with the same number

So, got to level 55.

I have only 2 points in Forested Expanse, meaning +2 totems (total 4), or +50% cost (x 1.5). But then -1 max totems from Grove Mind, or 3 total, +30 flat mana cost.

Also, I forgot to initially factor in that Shaman get -5 Totem cost as a class feature.

So, with that we get:

• 18 + 30 - 11 - 5 = 32 * 1.5 / 1.75 = 27.428 (round to 28)

And… the actual spell in-game comes out to cost… 28.

Guess that answers the question. It was Option 2.