The sparks version, I’m thinking of respeccing to that. The frostbite version is just impossible. In general frostbite builds are kinda screwed gear-wise: somehow elusive Snowdrifts (15 slams here, still no move speed), Shackles, Oceareon rings…
I’m not saying all builds should be equally accessbile but imo the discrepancy between common and rare uniques as well as common and rare (especially skill levels) rare affixes is just too much.
And yet, you haven’t answered my question. At what point does it become a “progression lock”? 200 corruption? 300 corruption? 1000? 1500?
I’m at the same point with my acid flask frostbite falconer. I need not one, but two T7 throwing damage mana cost reduction. I run out of mana when bossing. I haven’t found even one yet, not to mention slamming on a unique ring eventually. But I’m ok with that because that’s my chase item. I’ve done enough Baal runs back in the early 2000s to let that bother me. I’ve played enough games where all I did was grind for hours for a few percent of exp.
If you’re expecting a 3 LP twisted heart, then you have a serious problem. To date, I only dropped one 3 LP item and that’s the hand of judgment (which I’m thinking of making now that I have the item). I would try to stockpile as many T7 levels of frostclaw relics and just try to slam on a 1 LP or 2 LP twisted heart. If it doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work. It’s a fricken BIS item to have a T7 levels to frostclaw affix on a twisted heart. That you cannot progress without it is lunacy. Even then, there are 4 other base classes, 14 other masteries, and countless builds to play. I’m perfectly fine rolling another character. As a matter of fact, I do precisely that. My loot filter is made to look for items for 3 of my characters. It’s also a matter of fact that you’re bringing up one of the hardest slams in the game. Both are rare and hard to get and it happens to be a combination that spikes the build pretty damn hard. I can live with just T7 minus mana cost to throwing rings. Slamming them on a unique is bonus to me.
My graveyard currently has 2 failed Heart slams, now I have another 1LP Heart, but no T6 to slam.
Legendary crafting is honestly a rather miserable experience.
The 1/4 odds mean that you are quite likely to fail quite a few slams before getting what you are looking for. And the dungeon is just so boring to run with all the barriers and stuff.
Yeah, fuck the dungeon. I hate the stupid barriers.
I understand your point which is to temper my expectations and jack off to the half-full glass. But the fact that we’re even having this conversation proves that there is something wrong with the game.
Then you don’t have an endgame build. Your build sucks. And you can’t make it good because the game won’t let you. This is how it looks to me.
The cheapest T7 Frostclaw affix is 350M. 2LP Heart, I didn’t even look, probably max (1.5B). This means neither of those two things exist for normal people. Let alone “stockpiling.”
But why? It’s not even BiS. It’s still got 25% to trash slam.
Besides, I don’t understand why the members of the Forum LE Defender League always exaggerate people’s feedback. I didn’t say anything about 3LP Heart. I mentioned 1LP Heart. THIS is already near-impossible.
And my point is, why? Why won’t they let people make builds? Keep 3-4 LP where they are, keep the roll ranges and affix variety, even keep the damn Eternity Cache - that is more than enough to fuel the chase. There is no reason why entry point, build defining LP should be so inaccessible.
So what does that prove? Instead of finishing a character and moving on to an alt, you’re forced to abandon a half-assed, nowhere-near-BiS, impossible to progress build because you know YOU CAN’T PROGRESS ANY FURTHER. Precisely my point.
How is it better than the other side of the spectrum (which I do not advocate) where items are too easy and people finish and move on. They move on either way.
I runned 10 times maximum for 1LP success. Anyway it was for starting gear) And this barriers with all dungeon - most annoying thing in the game. With some traversal you can ignore barriers, but it still useless waste of time.
No it doesn’t. At least, not what you’re expecting. This game has flaws, no doubt about that. But not to the extent you guys are complaining about. I agree there is a problem, but don’t agree with how you guys diagnose it.
I’m at empowered monoliths. I clear them extremely fast right now so I can probably push to 150 or so before I slow down. I consider that endgame. I don’t need to push 1000 corruption nor do I expect to. My build doesn’t suck, I merely don’t have all the pieces. So instead of crying, I resolved my problem by running a belt affix that gives me mana when I use a potion. Not optimal because I’m wasting an affix slot, but I solve my problems instead of crying woe is me.
You’re playing MG. You can’t find other items to sell? Other T7 affixes? Other 2 LP uniques? I refuse to believe you can’t get other items to sell.
It’s BIS if you slam what you need. It’s not BIS if you don’t. The other dude mentioned 3 LP, not you. Merely because we disagree doesn’t mean you have to call people certain things. That’s the problem with people, they can’t argue on merit therefore they have to resort to ad hominem attacks. I’m working on my own feedback that I will submit later and I assure you, I will have problems with the game to point out.
Entry point, build defining LP doesn’t exist. My opinion is that up to 150 corruption is doable with just exalted and unique items. And that’s past the entry point. After that you’re pushing builds, hence where LP comes in.
I’m not forced to do anything. I reroll because I find it fun. I don’t find it fun to push corruption past a massive point. I find it fun to experiment and get a build going to a competent level. I find it fun to theorycraft and solve problems.
Even if I am playing just one build, I don’t mind grinding for upgrades. But I’m probably gonna end up somewhere in the middle. I’ll grind a character, but make other characters to grind it as well when I find an interesting item.
Feedback is fine. But exaggeration is not. I disagree with a lot of you because I don’t want this game to turn into an easy game. I want the game to be challenging and for the loot chase to exist. I don’t want the tedious, unnecessary and inefficient shit that still exists in the game and so I will provide that feedback when I’m ready. The developers will iterate and improve upon the game as time passes by. Some for better, some for worse. But it is undeniable that what was released is a complete game. Everyone looks at the past with rose colored glasses. D2 did not release with some massive endgame and a perfect game. They had to improve upon it. D3 release was horrible. D4 release was horrible. POE did not have an endgame that we expect games to have. They all improved to varying degrees. LE released with more things to do at the endgame and I trust the devs to improve the game because I trust their vision and competency.
Best what i read here. Not so long ago i saw messages in chat about “my filter dont show this”. Some people use lootfilter for just 1 build and cant understand they skip some T7 or items that can be crafted. -_-
I see that we have a different view on what endgame is. You think it’s 150, and I think it’s 300-600 farms and 1000+ pushes. No point arguing any further.
On the margin, Crate Entertainment (Grim Dawn) solved this issue by capping endgame rewards at a certain point. Beyond it, pushes were done only for the pushes’ sake. Sadly, EHG did not do that. In addition to item rarity stat, you get substantially more stability from high corruption echos. So when people say that progression is halted, it’s not just on the whim.
Also, LE balance is in the gutter. Many builds struggle with farm speed even as low as 300, and they do need those perfect slams.
Uniques were made to be used. Sadly, most LE uniques lack key stats for the slot. Shackles have no cast/attack speed, Snowdrifts have no move speed, most uniques have no levels to key skills, hardly any armor unique has hybrid health or any health at all, etc.). Perfect slams are a must to make those uniques viable, in my opinion. And I’m ok with that design solution. But why are they so inaccessible even at the lowest (1LP) level? Even a 1LP Heart requires hundreds of hours of commitment depending on Julra rng.
Scorpion Beastmaster is really good and tanky, and has a good skill rotation.
Since there is no such mechanic, I focused on what progression there actually is in the game: gear and perfecting blessings. Both of which still occur fairly regularly when you are level 100. For me at least.
Example: I flitted between 3 of my 90+ Alts last night just for fun, and all 3 of them got an upgrade in the course of the evening. (OK two of those were bought in the Bazaar, but the 3rd was a farmed drop). Still, it was progression none the less.
I was half-joking.
However the fact that I am an old-hand means I see the long-term/bigger picture than most players who started at 1.0. The fact I have levelled at least 30 Alts to 90 or higher (and similar numbers offline) over the years also means I have a solid grasp on late-game progression (or lack thereof).
So again, who are you going to believe? 
I have that build around level 95. It’s really fun. However I’ve pushed it to a level of corruption that my Scorpion is now dying occasionally. Dead Scorpion = dead build.
I am now re-gearing slightly to give the Scorpion more survivability, as I had gone all-in on Minion damage (the build creator proudly stated that Scorpion will never die, so I was mis-led on that front; I guess I pushed the build further than he did).
I did consider whining on the forums instead, but since that would have been somewhat pathetic, I decided to progress my gear through effort and playing the game and farming what I wanted. Revolutionary idea, I know.
You act like t7 frost claws are raining on you all day lol around 500 corruption I’ve had only one t6 frost claw drop. So no idea how you find them like crazy. And I’ve killed that dragon like 30 times with only getting two twisted hearts to drop, both with no lp. So I’ve got a feeling you’re talking out of your butt with how frequent you are getting those drops. So the reason I want a lp 3 is to almost guarantee it will slam my t6 frost claw because I may never find a t6-7 for a very long time. And that plus skill is more important than the unique itself.
You do know some people who play arpgs play to OPTIMIZE their characters to push hard content because that’s how THEY have fun. Not bis though, which some people do as well. And there are players like yourself who don’t play to optimize their characters. They don’t care to push harder content. And that’s fine as well. But really what’s been ticking me off a bit is those players coming in and keep trying to tell those players who play to optimize their gear that their way of playing is wrong and that if you stop playing to optimize your specs you’ll have more fun. Us type of players don’t tell you “you know you’ll have more fun if you start playing to optimize your classes. Your way of playing is not fun.”
The players that optimize obviously are going to find the problems in games faster than the players that don’t.
So why are you getting mad that some players like to play a game how they like to play it? Like seriously. How does it affect you if EHG’s decided to improve the progression curve past level 80? I would have to imagine it would improve your endgame experience just as much if not more than the hardcore players.
I agree it’s a tough situation. On one hand, the entire purpose of the Uniques is to provide a, well, unique, ability that’s so strong that it’s worth designing around, and that players would be happy to use affixes in other slots to make up for the Unique’s shortcomings. On the other hand, having a … non-optimal slot in one gear piece means you have to make sacrifices in other gear slots and it becomes a cascade of design choices that make people “unhappy” and wishing they could have everything they want in one slot. You have a gear slot that has an exalted resistance? Well, if you want to upgrade that one slot, you have to have a similar exalted resistance or else your resistance goes from 80% to 30%. Sealed affixes help this, somewhat, but I agree that the initial joy of having that Unique or Exalted item gets somewhat drowned by the “crap, I have to stick with this and it will take forever to get a good upgrade” feeling. Especially when it comes to affixes that give + to skills as they take forever to find and shatter just to get one chance at that BiS item you were hoping for.
I’m conflicted. I really like the Temporal Sanctum dungeon and its design, but I only run it once every few play sessions. If I had to run it 5+ times a day, I’d be angry at the random wall blocks too. I think some complaints are coming from the “I’m playing this game 8 hours a day, and the more I play, the more I get angry at the most insignificant things” syndrome, but at the same time I do want to see massive improvements in skill feel and balance so that people can play the style they want to play and not feel like they have to be a meta-slave to have a good time.
The dev talks are great and all, but they mostly compose of single-sentence answers. I’d love to see a big post-release roadmap that actually shows what some of these improvements will look like (because there’s a great chance the devs will get it wrong, and it’s much better to point them out early in development before they invest the sunk cost fallacy into a DoA, failed system), but I do respect the amount of communication they’re giving.
I know that some people do say that, but what most are saying is that 300 corruption is the endgame. It’s what the devs want to balance around on and you don’t need LP uniques for that.
Most people are just saying (or meaning to say) that the problem isn’t that the way you play is wrong, but your expectations are wrong.
Progressing to 300 corruption is relatively smooth. If you get some LP drops in the meantime, even better, though you don’t really need them.
But if you want to push 1k+ and need LP uniques (especially the ultra-rare ones) then you should obviously expect things to be slow and difficult to get. Like I mentioned (in this or another thread) it’s similar to wanting 2/20s on D2. They should be really really hard to get.
Not all players like this gate to endgame progression, and that’s fine. But there are players that do. And there’s nothing wrong with the system itself (like there was nothing wrong with it in D2), just with players expecting ultra-rare gear to drop in a few days, when that’s not the design of the game.
Maybe we could get some stuff to help legendaries, like a special rune that let’s you undo the slam, or a new dungeon, or even just letting you re-slam a unique however many times you want. All would be fine options. But getting that great legendary for your build so you can push way past what is considering endgame should always be really hard to get.
Ultimately this issues boils down to game design vs player type/mentality. Some players like this design, others don’t. Personally, I prefer LP rare uniques to be as hard to get as 2/20s on D2 than as easy to get as Primals on D3. Even if this means I won’t likely get them, since I don’t have enough time to farm for them.
That’s most people’s point though. In the current system it’s very frustrating. Having to rerun the same dungeon for a one time leggo craft, hoping it takes the right affixes, and if not refarm everything.
If say they changed how the leggo crafting system worked to either allow you to pick the affix you wanted to get or allowing a few rerolls for each leggo craft then most people’s problems would be alleviated. If that happened then yeah I wouldn’t feel the need to farm an lp3. If I get one cool, if not, no big deal. But currently with how rare some affixes are and build defining it’s not worth the risk of using a low lp.
Like I’ve said I’ve only found one t6 frost claw. No t7 yet. If you play frost claw rune master, that is an absolute necessity. The build doesn’t function without it. So since I’ve only found one I can’t waste it.
The chase items are fine. And okay that they are rare. But the current leggo system is the pain point. Until that system gets an update to target the affix you want or at least allow a few rerolls, most people will have this complaint.
I’d be fine with rerolling the legendaries. We already kinda have this system already with the Merophage. And rerolling wouldn’t make it too easy, since you still need to find the exalts to slam. But at least it wouldn’t make you feel like you totally wasted that hard to get 1-2LP rare unique.
Both CoF and MG will get changes in 1.1. I expect some loot changes as well. Let’s see what they come up with.
Personally, any time I hear a “I NEED THIS, I literally cannot function without it” it just feels like a false dilemma meant to force people to react on an amygdala level. What exactly about that particular item makes it the difference between a fun build and “literally unplayable?” Can the skill points be arranged on a better level to ensure that players don’t feel they have to reach such hoops (and I’m talking on the dev level, I’m not going to tell players “you’re just speccing it wrong”)? Will there be more items that grant +skills down the road so players aren’t shoehorned into a specific item?
I’d say it’s more of a build planner / content creator’s problem in not providing more budget-friendly setups that still allow players to enjoy the 500 range while eyeing the chase items that will catapult into the 800-1000 range. I know it’s a lot of equipment management to chase incremental increases in power, but I’ll take slow and steady incremental progress over “this one item doubles my power and I’m completely stuck without it.”
I haven’t personally seen this sort of question asked to the devs, but I’d like to see someone approach this topic.
It is difficult to force all progression to be gradual. The power of the FC build comes from the interaction of its passives. I am sure that the devs did not intend to create a top meta build that requires this sort of itemization, it just happened as an emergent property of the game.
For the specific case of frost claw, the build will not function at it full potential without a certain number of +level to frost claw. Of course, you can play another build, which is what I am currently doing. You can get a rather scuffed setup by basically getting +level of skills on all possible slots (omins + fragment of the enigma + unstable core), you can sacrifice some damage by reducing the ele nova proc rate.
So, sure, it is not that you need to get the slam otherwise you literally die.
But at the same time, the build is never going to be finished until you get the slam. Arguably, until you get the slam, you are playing another build altogether.
And again, it’s FINE to play another build, but if your progression to play the build that you want is being held hostage by a single item, I believe it is reasonable to be frustrated.
And this is to add to the fact that it SUCKS to farm for the slam. A 25% chance of success means that on average it will take 4 tries. But there is a 5% chance that it will take 11+ tries to get it, and a 1% chance that it will take 17+ tries.
So one out of four people will get it first try, one every 20 will get it in 11+ tries, and one every 100 people will get it 17+ tries.
Haha I’ll reply to you later, gotta run. I just couldn’t resist the statement about being mad. I’m the happy one right now. Seriously, read your posts and tell me who sounds mad. Dead honest.