It is great that there are difficult bosses in this game that give certain drops and other rewards (blessings) for their defeat, but requiring that every build be capable of every boss in order to progress through endgame is absurd.
There are many very fun builds that have the capability of beating all normal content and several of the major bosses, but requiring that ALL builds have ALL capabilities to beat ALL bosses is not going to make a lot of people happy.
Please get rid of gateway bosses that require specific capabilities or skills from all builds in order to progress in the game, or a lot people will just quit when their favorite build is not able to go further. I have created two builds that have reached high levels while flying through regular content, but eventually encountered absurdly difficult bosses for which I had neither the knowledge nor inclination to design around.
It is possible to create challenges and rewards for everyone without forcing many to fail and quit because they prefer some of the less capable skills and playstyles.
Please give specific examples of bosses that are impossible with specific builds. If we don’t go into specifics for this, no one has any idea what exactly needs removing or changing.
Odd that this isn’t obvious. You used the word “impossible”. I used the word “difficult”.
In any case, my first build, a necromancer, can’t do Lagon or Rahyeh. Second build, a VK Sentinel, did those but can’t do Emperor of Corpses. There have been a few other bosses that I got through but were decidedly unpleasant.
I will never want to do Lagon or Emperor again with any character ever. If you think those crazy long fights where one mistake equals death are fun, you are designing for a small crowd. Good luck.
It’s not obvious because in my most recent feedback, I actually thought all the current LE bosses are too easy.
And this is the point. What you think is “absurdly difficult” is “ridiculously easy” for me. If you truly wish to find some middle ground, it helps to be specific about what exactly you are finding issue with. Then we can have a proper discussion of whether specific boss mechanics is particularly unfair if you don’t have specific type of skills for example. And if gears could help compensate in such cases. Or we might then conclude the boss indeed only allows a very narrow group of builds to succeed.
This is just the kind of response that loses players forever. I have to laugh.
You may be able to assemble builds of any kind you like to defeat any of the bosses, but the builds I have tried and at considerable effort, while fun and capable at the typical content, are utterly ill equipped to handle the harder bosses. These bosses should not limit my progress.
The general consensus of this game among my gaming group is that it has fun elements, but will either dramatically fail, or dramatically change. In any case I’m happy to play other games. Keep trying…
When i tried those bosses the first few times i felt excactly like you do. Then i saw some videos of people actually beting those bosses half naked (with only weapon and boots), and the build/skills they used didnt really matter either, so i got convinced that it wasnt a gear/build check, but rather a mechanically fight where you need to move in certain patterns.
After i learned those patterns i can now beat those bosses with any kind of experimental build i make, and im not a very fast reacting player by any means.
Imo the most important thing in Boss fighting is Run Speed (30%+).
The bosses MIGHT be doing this. But it also MIGHT be an understanding of how the game actually works, such as how defenses adjust or damage stacks and how gear and skill choices effect these.
That’s why it’s important to provide specific details about your characters and what you find difficult about the boses so the devs can help/figure out WHICH of those “mights” it is.
Why are you being so vague and not providing feedback on what builds and what skill issues you’ve been having? You can’t have this discussions without that information. How can the developers look into the issue if you’re not providing the feedback.
If you’re having problems with bosses you should start by checking gear resistances/defenses and try to learn boss patterns, if that fails tweek your build a bit or farm for better gear. You can share your build using Last Epoch Build Planner.
Calm down, noone is attacking you here :). If someone says it’s easy it’s just honest feedback because the community in this corner of the internet is still very friendly.
I have some questions about your builds on top of this. What skills did you specc in and how are the defences of said toons you have problems with? Maybe you had an oversight in your build concept this happens from time to time.
On top of this some bosses have skills you just need to avoid. Yes this sounds pretty simple but sometimes it isn’t obvious at first glance that’s why all people ask for specifics what the problems are you encountered.
I can assure you that builds/masteries are not the limiting factor.
All of the MoF bosses and even Lagon (the current last story boss) are just very mechanical fights.
I just created a thread recently talking exactly about the issue you are having.
Feel free to leave you feedback there.
The problem in this thread is: You still have not given any details what exactly you personally find to difficult.
You just mentioned a mastery and which boss you think they can’t defeat.
Is it one specific ability you keep dying to? Are you actively trying to dodge things or just try to stand still an do dps, because you think you build is tanky enough?
Just because your build was capable of easily doing all the other content before the bosses, and then all of the sudden you fail miserably on teh bosses, doesn’t make them “too hard” IMO.
It’s coming down alot to players exceptations and how you play the game.
The bosses are designed to impose a threat even to the most well thought out builds and certain abilities are not meant to be face tanked.
Learning the boss patterns and the visual/audio cues is part of the learning proccess.
May i ask how often did you try all these bosses that are too difficult? Did you try them once? twice? thrice?
And when you failed, did you at least noticed why or how you died? Did you learn something from that deaths for the next try?
The bosses are desgined to have a strong learning curve. And if some mechanics are not obvious to you or to difficult to execute, that is fine. This can lead to great feedback.
But we need more details.
Leave it here or on the thread i posted.
And if you feel better with this: There are alot of people stuggeling with the bosses. @Cujo already did post my very recent Guide to the MoF bosses, which i created, because you are not the only one struggeling and that is fine.
But all the normal content is still very beatable if you put the effort and will into learnign these fights.
Only the empowered timelines will impose a “unbeatable threat” to many players, which is fine, since you already experienced the content at normal at least.
You don’t have to be able to face everything. But you can have several gear pieces that you change sometimes. Pieces with Cold resistance, that you change for the same but with Void resistance for example. This can help much.
And of course, knowing what awaits you is very helpful. See Heavy’s recent video about all timeline bosses, for example. You will know what damage the bosses do, what their skill rotation is, etc. I know some players prefer to discover everything by themselves, but if you don’t mind some help this can be really useful!
Boss fights in Last Epoch are very mechanical: you can learn them. You can learn how the boss fights, how it shows what he’s going to do, etc.
Are there any aRPGs with bosses that don’t use the boss to gatekeep progress? If they didn’t, what’s the point of the boss? Are there any games with bosses that don’t use them to gatekeep progress?
Fighting Lagon with a Necro minion build is a chore currently.
Theres something odd with the targeting so most of your minions just stand there idle without doing anything. Attack command doesn’t help in that situation. As soon as you try to avoid a telegraphed attack, the minions follow you and stop attacking. I get when people get frustrated.
But people are offering help and are just asking for more information.
In this game there no general division of classes or masteries that can do certain content while others can’t. Necromancer != Necromancer. It depends not only on the skill combination you use, but also on how you build your skills and what synergies you use.
I also have builds that worked really well for everything below lvl 90 timelines and after this begin to struggle. But theres also a difference in doing lvl 90 or 100 content with a lvl 82 character, just because you were able to reach that point, or having a full build lvl 100 character.
The general statement of the OP saying people should be able to finish 100% of content with any build is absolutely unrealistic. How should that work? How low would EHG need to lay the difficulty for the whole community to please that tiny amount of players that think they should not have to learn, farm and build their characters for beating endgame content?
I get that people might encounter roadblocks. But if your willing to get past them, here’s a great community that can help and already has helped a lot of players.
The only boss that i really hate with passion is lagoon.
And thats not for the boss itself thats for all the mechanical issues it has.
a) targeting / hitbox
b) minions
c) movment skills
d) VK “porting” him leading to absolutly eratic behaviour.
To just name a few.
To be honest at this point it would be best to just remove the boss from the game and fix it mechanics - it is a cool boss but a buggy hell.
Other than that - bosses are hard - rest is too easy.
I would also be in for “nerf bosses a bit” (really a BIT) but dramaticly buff the white victims we have everywhere
I read most posts, not all. This game is really piss easy from a casual gamers PoV, making bosses easier would render them and your achievement killing them totally pointless. You don’t lose much by failing. Do some MoF and try again. Switch some gear pieces/skills to tender the needs and you are OP, once you saw the encounter. It’s really not rocket science or 10 different mechanics to learn to beat them. Not sure where the thread starter is coming from but tetris was harder to grasp.
@Devs: pls don’t get rid of gateway bosses that require a special set up, it’s what makes the game spicy. There’s enough obsolete trash already for everybody to enjoy.
I mean, he has kind of a point. Is the boss just supposed to be some big mob that acts as a gear check or should it just be a big mechanical fight?
I think it’s probably always going to be a little bit of both. I think all skills could be able to do dmg and eventually kill them though. That should be the design target.
Yes & no. I think there needs to be a line where “good” builds can go further than “bad” builds & “good/skilled” players can go further than lower-skilled players. I’d think that the OP would suggest that that line be pushed further back than it currently is (which is his prerogative) & I disagree with that (which is my prerogative).
Though the question that the OP’s post is an answer to is a pertinent one - how much skill (as a player) or coherence/synergy (for a build) should be required to get past boss X.
