Eleventh Hour Games Community Engagement

News
102

Feedback to the survey itself:

Other (Comment Below) was not reachable through my browser (Firefox). I couldn’t reach the line where i should be able to write something else down.

I think, you were already on point with communication in the past. Season Hype for S2 was on point. Having team members and community members talk to each other AND revealing future stuff was the way to go, in my opinion.
I don’t know if all that stuff has to be with big streamers… but it was good. Normal active members in the game/discord could do it aswell i guess, “the basic smaller guys” and not always the big ones, but i think it will be a reach thing…

For me personally, i didn’t like that you showed THE KEY THINGS of the next 3 patches in the roadmap, it spoilered stuff, that would have been more exciting to see right before it would come out, in the hype time beforehand and 9-12 months before, but that whole thing was an emergancy reaction anyway i guess.
It could have been avoided, if you would have had the communication you had with the Season 2 time and thats what i would like to see again.

For the future: Communicate stuff, even if it is bad, if it correlates with things said in the past or if you have to delay stuff, because of reason XY… Silence hurts more than the bad news itself!

Surveys are a great tool, if it is done properly.
I HATE to login via steam, so typing everything in, get the 2FA code to Email, login to email, copy pasta code, just to reach the survey… it is a mess and it is not fun.

It would be cool, if this website could see, that iam currently logged in to the game/steam, so the whole process wouldn’t be necessary, but ok. OR, as someone mentioned in the discord, make it possible to get to this survey via ingame button.

This survey is a good step into the direction you were already on :slight_smile:

Peace!

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103

its more for ppl who get bored after hitting 100 and have everything. with different monthly winners it would be fun to spread the trophies around a little. not really for Bizarre / shoppers. more the CoF scene :wink:

104

My apologies for the confusion - this was in reference to making a comment via thread, not commenting in the survey itself. Thank you for still taking the time to provide more response even through that confusion!

Unfortunately there needs to be some barrier, or verification. As we have found in the past, there are far too many who are happy to abuse loopholes to simply troll results. Currently we feel that using our own website is the most agreeable solution over third party tools, when we can. Google Survey offers the most secure results, but when possible we prefer the ‘feel’ of using our own services.

This is an interesting idea in theory, but in practice it becomes very scary, very fast. We would need to be able to see all of your credentials, be able to identify your credentials, and pull them from your PC to our services - all without your input. Regardless of moral implications, that’s not a responsibility we’re willing to accept.

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105
  1. Addressing possible “pay-to-win” situation before expansion is even released via either choosing other monetization form or at least actually keeping new paid classes balanced with the existing free classes, so that they would be picked mainly by people who like their theme or flavour. You would need to do that every season and for every new class though, so maybe just picking other monetization form would be much easier and will prevent you from a lot of headaches in the future.
  2. Much more frequent class balance changes, both between seasons and in seasons. While you did make a poll resulting in decision not to nerf builds mid-league that should not prevent you from buffing undertuned Masteries and skills during league if you see that they perform poorly.
  3. Changing your approach from “1-2 classes get attention per Season” to “All classes get attention each season with undertuned skill buffed / redesigned”. Current model with “classes getting attention when they get turn” makes players of other classes feel neglected and issues / bugs being not addressed for months if not years. As a Sorcerer player since Season 1 I am still waiting for buffs to undertuned fire based Meteor and fire caster builds and Sorcerer in general. I am waiting for almost a year already.
  4. Addressing currently undertuned uniques like Wildfire Embers and adding new ones with actual gameplay changes like change of skill’s element, behaviour and likewise.
106

I enjoy LE the most out of all the ARPGs and the reason why, is because how instinctual the game feels. Every season I pick a class and a skill and build it up from scratch without build guides. I might not be the strongest, but I always reach the endgame without issues. As long as this aspect is present, I will enjoy playing the game.
The updates up until now have been focused on expanding endgame and finishing the actual game. What I would like to see more is making campaign more core to the character development. Side quests that lead to unique items or skills, or even build-defining improvements. I believe campaign should make you a strong character and the end game should be for farming and extra content. As I do not go extra deep in the endgame, the engagement of the campaign is very important for me. I believe end game content in the campaign is engaging, but it does not lead to meaningful outcomes that would matter in the endgame, just items and gold that matter short term. Idols are cool, so making similar mechanics to tweak your character that could be unlocked throughout the campaign would be cool. Beating a main boss in the campaign should give you something more defining than just normal drops.
Making campaign less mandatory and more meaningful with build defining rewards would be great. Then, the endgame should just offer broader options for play. This is the way POE does it, with different ways of earning unique currency, and I believe LE should follow similar path. Making an arena mode with rogue like elements with final bosses dropping unique currency that improves the character in unique ways. Or a unique dungeon mod where you join a faction and work against another ones being rewarded with unique items tied to that faction. Each player has options how they want to experience the endgame and is not forced to just run echoes endlessly. This requires unique modes of play that combine different game genres, and I understand this would require a lot of work, but I believe it would make the game more engaging and open for more players. Unique drops for different game mods would make the trading more engaging and interesting for some players.
There is a lot that can be done with LE, and regardless of what changes, I will stay playing the game as long as the core experience of picking whatever and making it work through campaign stays. More engaging campaign and more diversified end game would be what I would like to see.

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107

You have the emails of all players I guess… use them. Heck even a nuudle can be made secure if someone want to. Google surveys are somehow secure but everyone with 3 minutes time who can use google knows how to make a bazilllion mails and use them to do a bazillion surveys.

Just pick 10k random people from they silent playerpool so not the loud minorty from this forum or reddtit or wherever but some people who never been heared. I guess answers would be suprising if ppl even care enough to answer to the mail :smiley: .

Every time I think about how impossible something is I think back to a friend back in my teen days who was out to get on the good side of a 18+ years old girl. I thought that’s impossible but somehow he pulled it of. When he was able to do this… guss you need to know him to make sense out of this, you are able to make a survey for sure.

He was a miracle worker, we talk about surveys.

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108

While there’s certainly value in listening to the silent, I do also personally believe that those who chose not to be silent should be heard. If someone cares enough to come to us, to spend the time to log in, and share their voice - the actions hold merit beyond the statements made.

Regardless of using third party services such as Google Survey, or our own services, a log-in and/or authorization is required. I apologize that I don’t see how this contradicts the point of requiring additional verification.

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109

Why? The forum username is usually (but not always) the player’s account name so you’ve got both sides so why is it morally dubious to have something on the forum/your website that says that acounts X, Y & Z are currently in-game? I’m not entirely sure what the benefit of being able to do that is or why it might be morally dubious, but if you can see which accounts are logged into the game & which accounts are logged into the forums, why is it difficult to match the two up given the account names are the same in the vast majority of cases.

Granted you’d need to have this be either opt-in or opt-out.

110

Because we can’t start with knowing their username. If I understand correctly, they’re asking to be automatically authorized by visiting the web-page. By default, the web page has a simple 200 request. With a default web request, we can know an IP address, and a browser version. That’s not enough to identify a user. To identify a user, without that user submitting information, we would need access to their PC’s stored credentials to identify a set of credentials for Steam, and use those to identify what user is accessing the web page.

The moral dubiousness here would be having access to a local PC’s credential repository. A web based auth token, and a game client auth token are not interchangeable. We can’t simply look for a steam auth token without first asking what account we’re asking an auth token for. And we can’t know that a web user is related to a client user without a token). It’s a bit of a catch-22. where the only solution is either the user takes action, or there is morally dubious things going on.

This can be resolved with first-party tokens, but with third party tokens (the client requiring steam log-in) it’s not something we have free-reign of. The user needs to say “yes” (give Eleventh Hour Games my Steam token to identify who I am) - which is all the steam login really is when accessing the forums. If you need to log-in to steam after trying to log-in to the forums, the correct token never existed in the first place for us to identify.

Our website is just asking for your Steam Auth Token - “who are you?” If you have a web based auth token, it’s just a matter of confirming that you want to give us that token. If you don’t have that token, or in other words, aren’t logged into web Steam, you then need to log-in to Steam on a browser to create that token to provide to us.

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111

If you read the forum you’ll hear us loud and clear. While this isn’t doing any good as it seems a different approach might help.

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112

Im waiting next season, at this moment, im just playing d4 and LE every new season.

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113

Game copies/keys. Also I want them to be included in a new tier of supporter packs. So I can give some keys away or gift to some streamer to raffle them away. It’s all about growing the playerbase.

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Thank you everyone for your responses and feedback! I’ll be closing the polls today as previously set, so we can start getting this feedback into the records. Then we’ll be able to take this great feedback for all new and improved plans in the new year!

I’ll keep the thread open as a place to submit suggestions for as long as players would like; we’ll be regularly checking in to record all new feedback.

We hope everyone has fun this holiday season, and we’ll see you in the new year!

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115

I think I forgot to mention in my OG post - a weapon overhaul would be nice, we have a whole bunch of I guess legacy weapons which have crazy low chances of good LP on them comparitively to newer much better ones that drop easier with higher LP. I think you guys should go through and re-work the old ones and increase chance of LP on the drops at the moment for some classes it’s just a case of get to 85 and grab the same axe or roll a good clothos sword - example. Would be really cool to see a huge rework and mod to exsiting old stuff to bring it all up to par. The more choice the more builds you can tinker with and the more fun you can have. Look forward to that the most.

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116

some of the uniques are very strong. but the newer uniques can be better due to having more LP.
kinda makes the older uniques look less shiny.

117

Unique items which are weaker have a higher chance to have LP. This helps to add some power to this uniques, extends the item chase, as well as allows for the creation of things like leveling legendaries.

Unique items which are more powerful with their core stats are much less likely to have LP as that would be a little too powerful. An item’s chance to have LP is not related to the equip level of the item - it’s something we specifically set and adjust based on balancing the item’s power. If there’s specific uniques that you think could use higher/lower LP values, let us know!

118

It’s a very good idea, creative solution definitely.
Sadly it also has shown to have some very serious side-effects. Namely the issue that ‘basic’ bases are devalued nigh entirely because of it. You get a sub-par base with a unique but in return LP on top… and the mentioned higher LP chance for worse uniques pushes it to become nearly as powerful or even surpassing exalted items in the majority of cases currently.

Which is bad, very very bad, one of the core reasons why comparatively to the other games in the genre the itemization progression of LE feels so ‘lackluster’.
A ton of variants usually provided but all culmulated down to ignoring the potential variety for them completely (and no, neither champion nor primordial Affixes have any reasonable impact there) and instead solely focusing on ‘which unique provides the best upsides’. The only exceptions are happening when there is literally not a single half-way usable unique present for the slot… and with expanding options for each slot this will lead to it being a full unique-centric experience when nothing is done.

I personally would be more prone to creating a highly curated top-end available (individual max LP for each unique, stated in the tooltip when hovering over it) then the current situation where excessive RNG outliers can lead to rather ridiculous outcomes.
Though that’s also likely too resource-intensive to uphold currently.

So my second-most favored adaptation would be for a proper balancing pass for bases, including accessibility of them. Getting a specific unique is easy, getting a specific base with a specific Affix is a nightmare for both MG and CoF still, there is some serious work needed to get it into a ‘decent’ position.
Same with the pure balancing pass to provide worthwhile and near-exclusive intrinsic Affixes unlike currently where the vast majority - outside of melee base damage - has barely any weight for a build.

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119

I generally loved the idea of events like early POE had. But that only works if streamers really want to run them as it can attract a decent number of people.

Content creators seem to be happy sticking with POE1/2 and D4 ahead of LE. So I’m not sure it’s worth the effort to make events.

120

I already understand how things work and didn’t need a mansplaining situation. The fact is a lot of the early version items are straight up SHIT and not “powerful uniques” when you compare them to powercreeped newer version items. Below is one example but there are many other old weapons and armor no one ever uses they dont even bother picking them up.

Just an example my bro - https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAwRlA4GYg - the drop rate percent for getting it to drop is 1% or 4% then the chance of it hitting lp2 is 1 in 390 - do the maths on that rate (WAIT ChatGPT did it for you - lp2 (at 4% drop rate) is actually 1 in 9750 kills and lp3 is actually 1 in 1.9 MILLION kills ) then compare it to a 30-40% (which what feels like everytime you run folly) clothos dropping with a 10+ ww and then getting a lp2/3/4 on that with much much better stats + the crit chance + the crit multi + the strenght + the dex ++++ no insane “cant avoid crit” debuff. I’m sure it’s happened (not really but someone will claim to have seen it) but I’ve never seen an lp3 of that sword online. Anyways most old items suck and need an overhaul, there are some that were good then y’all nerfed them a bit like WorldSplitter or slightly newer a named fav “BBC” lmao. Seems like you guys will just introduce more new shit which is fantastic but the old stuff still drops from bosses which is weird and annoying that it’s junk.

Thanks for your time <3

121

It’s true that some older uniques haven’t gotten a respective balance-pass for drop-rate, actually… scrap that… a lot needs a general revisit for drop-rates overall.
You’re right with that.

It won’t solve the core issue though and is a lot of tedium, the ‘odd feeling’ you describe there is present in most games which run for a long time, items which just were ‘left behind’ gradually. That’s overall fine as long as it’s not going out of hand (which LE is in the mild risk department already after the few major updates they did).

Always handle the root cause first if resources are available and tackle top-end whenever no resources are available for big stuff. A balance is important there.

As for this:

It’s not 1,9 million kills, it’s 1,9 million unique drops. So actually a lot worse as not every mob will drop a unique item. Roughly 100 million kills I imagine is the true number :stuck_out_tongue:

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