unread and ignored successfully. Other bad design from devs, dont have a block button for attentions whores.
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Aww, and I thought we were buddies, with your warm personality and debate wit.
People want to turn this game into D3 
Good thing the devs of this game play their game and know what they are doing.
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As someone raking 8000 hours in PoE I have more then intense knowledge on how a beginner, a mediocre longer-term player and an experienced veteran plays the game.
I can definitely say: Respec in PoE for anyone which isnât a veteran is utterly atrocious, and even as a veteran you wouldnât re-spec more then 10-20 times per season, given youâre investing quite the substantial amount of time into it.
During the leveling the PoE system is utterly useless. You get a miniscule amount of respec points during the side quests (which plainly spoken⌠some should be skipped simply as theyâre a waste of time) and regret orbs basically are non-existent during this time, given theyâre a T2 currency and hence fall in the same hallmark as chaos orbs.
And weâre not even talking about class-identity here, because true⌠itâs a different topic. Weâre solely stuck on how much time involvement the separate systems need, and at which times you get the respective ability to change abilities.
Early game (Campaign):
Path of Exile provides absolute miniscule ability to change both skills and passives. You have at max 20-25 points available, which is at the end of the campaign not even 1/3rd of your points spent.
Last Epoch provides full re-spec, albeit the re-leveling of the skills takes around 3/4rd of the time which PoE needs in comparison. Passives are one utter non-issue since you get more then enough gold to afford it several times over during the campaign, a FULL respec even.
Mid game (running non-empowered monoliths/map progression white and yellow):
PoE provides a more reliable source of respec now, skills become even harder to switch out and have the same power level. Youâll get 10-20 regrets an hour of you know exactly what youâre doing, depending on the league mechanic more.
Last Epoch provides a bit of a slow respec during that time as well, youâll need around 5-8 monoliths to finish it, which is roughly⌠30-minutes to 1 hour at worst. Passive-respec is a full non-issue, a single gold shrine or gold monolith will pay for one full respec.
End-game (empowered monolith/red maps):
Poe begins to become viable to respec finally, in a full manner. Skills will take around 3-4 hours though, leveling gems takes a LONG time. Passives become available for a full respec in ~3-6 hours depending on how you run the content.
Last Epoch starts to utterly shine in comparison. 1-3 monoliths for a FULL respec, very likely enough gold stored up to respec passives 50-100 times at once.
So please, go ahead⌠where is the comparison wrong there? Enlighten me because I actually donât have an idea where I might be wrong from your perception, hence not having a discussion basis. And without a discussion basis you can say thing willy-nilly and just say âwhateverâ. Makes it not more or less real.
About it being punitive:
If the Last Epoch respec system is too punishing and as you said âyou played nearly every ARPG ever madeâ⌠then I have to say: Iâm baffled, utterly confused actually.
You either seem to have ignored the differences in respec systems available in the ARPG sector, youâre delusional for some reason or youâre outright lieing here. Those are the 3 major choices I see as realistic in that situation, hence Iâll lean towards ignoring them. It turning to a matter of taste or flavor there for you. In which case⌠yeah, the game might not be for you. Not every game is for everyone, and thatâs actually good.
Cost mitigation:
Nearly every single system available in online-based ARPGs has one inherent cost to it. It is either resources acquired or time. Time also breaks down into resources acquired during that time. So the baseline is âhow many resources can be acquiredâ, period.
Once more the PoE to Last Epoch comparison.
PoE provides exchanging orbs of chance to orbs of regret in a 4 to 1 ratio. Orbs of chance are a valuable commodity if used properly, they provide possible unique items early on as well as outfitting your character with rare items better fitting for you. Orbs of regret on their own are inherently quite valuable, at the beginning of a league even more then chaos orbs for a reason. So the cost for a respec is immense. For skills time-wise massive, for passives even more so as it hinders your direct progression.
Last Epoch is MUCH more forgiving. The gold cost is barely felt and the time investment which in returns lowers your resource acquisition is barely 1/10th of what PoE has in early and mid-game. Full respecs are fully possible early on, becoming ever easier as the progression goes further and further.
So yes, that âtime tunnelâ youâre speaking about is always there, you just perceive it different. But thatâs on you personally, not the game. As mentioned, a matter of flavor/taste.
At what @HorusKBZ said in terms of feelings and your answer to it:
No, if something feels âbadâ then itâs not inherently âunfairâ. Everyone has a different perception of what feels good or bad. Itâs simply a wrong statement bearing no basis whatsoever. No shorthand, no comparison, no nothing. Thatâs what the difference between âsubjectiveâ and âobjectiveâ means after all. A very very important difference.
But I agree with the respec system not being absolutely breathtaking and marvelous. It has flaws, those need to be ironed out, and those hopefully will be ironed out over time. Theyâre not huge unlike you want to try to state it, but they can be felt. If you put objective comparisons to âall those other ARPGs in roughly the same situationâ then itâs on place 2-3 I would say in terms of how forgiving it is.
On topic of the comparison for PoEâs Orb of Regret drop-chance and LEâs system:
Your answer is⌠factually wrong.
Youâre talking about passive skill points. So lets talk about those first and foremost!
Respeccing those costs a measly few hundreds of gold per point. A full inventory of blue items gives you a single point, you pick up around 500 gold during Act 1 of the game at least, with a lucky unique double that. Given youâre roughly level 10 at the end of that Act⌠nearly a full respec.
PoE gives you⌠2⌠thatâs it. All you get. Done and gone. Finding a single regret orb during that Act is also unlikely.
So no, youâre utterly and factually wrong there.
Now letâs see skills⌠Picking up a new skill in PoE immediately massively lowers your damage potential, it takes time to level that up, no way around it period. Nobody sells gems at that level and you wouldnât have reliable currency to pay for it either anyway.
So no⌠youâre talking about the difference between apples and oranges, if you want to make comparisons then at least make proper ones. Youâre twisting facts in utterly weird ways that make no sense.
Deleveling/switching gems causes no friction in PoE:
Thatâs one of the most insincere notions Iâve ever heard. Gems in PoE are a massive time investment, not a miniscule thing.
So no, itâs not a âmootâ point.
Poe has changed orb of regrets being too scarce early game:
Those are worth around 1,5c per piece early on in the league for a reason. You barely get any, you canât get enough during campaign for even a single full respec.
So no, youâre once again wrong. False comparison. The only exception are league mechanics which can vastly wildly every 3 months, itâs not a fixed thing.
But sure, if youâre solely going by the newest league then itâs not very punishing, the newest league is ridiculously overzealous in providing currency⌠but thatâs clearly going to change again as itâs an âexperimentâ as GGG stated. So no baseline to compare things, it would be factually wrong to do that.
I wonât answer to more of your comments youâve written after that part⌠it plainly said has gotten too much, and youâre spinning your tale more and more into nonsensical venues afterwards, switching over your argument from wrong statements to limiting it to very specific situations.
We can absolutely talk about shortcomings and suggestions to improve the current system⌠but a generalization at the beginning being bent and twisted into whatever it has become now is quite baffling. I recommend making a summarization of the whole topicâs main points which youâve gotten fleshed out and talking about the specific situations where itâs a detriment rather then an overview. Then it can make sense. Like it is now it does not.
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Thank you for providing some actual insight into the current PoE situation, pretty much matching my slightly outdated experience.
Itâs not good insight, actually, much of it is flat out wrong (advising anyone to skip side quests which reward both Regret Orbs and required Passive Skill points is⌠honestly boggling, and the rest is a confused preachy mess of true and false).
But thereâs no point getting into a long call and response in the LE forums about PoE. Those who know, know already. Those who donât, and want to use the misinformation to feel better about LE (which is unnecessary), are going to do that no matter what. Case to point ^^^
Best to get back to the actual topic.
I hate easy respec in arpgs, for example d3, it was just an excuse to check leaderboards swap gear and skills to the flavor of the day and done, you are playing the right way nowâŚwhats the point of trying new stuff then
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He didnât say that. He said that most players will skip those quests that just give refund points. Having played in a clan for a few years in PoE with many top tier players, I can tell you that that part is certainly true. All players want is to speed run the campaign and they skip the useless quests, like the ones that only give refunds or gear.
It should also be noted that during that time, my experience with the top tier players is that they donât usually respec that much. They usually only respec from leveling/campaign to full build at maps. If they get a campaign rush, not even that. And they certainly donât bother respeccing their ascendancy either.
He said precisely that, and everything in this paragraph is wrong. I mean, if youâre going to attempt to correct people with attitude, you should at least be right. The rest of the post is just as unreliable (mostly).
Everyone who plays the game respecs at least a bit at some point - especially if youâre new, or just trying to find a build each league that you actually enjoy playing (Iâm lucky in that my own build seems to be holding steady). The game all but requires it.
LE seems a bit different in that regard, but I know much less about it.
I donât think you interpreted what he said correctly, if you still say that. He said you get a low amount of respec points from side quests, which should be avoided for being a waste of time. The side quests that only give respec points is what he was talking about. And skipping the side quests that give only refunds is what most veteran players do in PoE (like the one in act 1 where you have to clear the cave, right at the start. No veteran player ever does that quest).
I donât know who youâve been watching, but watch Mathil or Quinn or Ziz, or any of a number of the big PoE streamers at the beginning of a league. AFAIK they all do the side quests, especially at the league start. Itâs only on subsequent characters they might skip stuff, because they donât need it (though they are usually playing SSF).
Racers get super selective about what they do, but there arenât many of them.
Itâs really not. The respec points you get from the side quests are so few that it borders on worthless when compared to getting to maps faster. Once youâre even a little bit into running maps youâll be swimming in Regrets and items you can convert into them.
As I said, I was in a clan in PoE for a few years and I did LOTS of campaign rushes, since I donât mind doing the campaign. Not once did I do those quests, nor did any of the groups at launch. Itâs a waste of time since your goal at launch is to reach maps as fast as possible so youâll have a leg up in trading.
Most players do them. If you were in a clan your experience of the game is not in any way average. Why are we even talking about it in those terms? If you hit maps, youâre already in the top 30 percent.
This discussion is about the time cost of respeccing at low to mid-level in LE (I have no experience of what itâs like at endgame). Thatâs the only point. Everything else in this thread is white noise extrapolated from examples by people who just seem to want to argue. Itâs a little weird (though I get the defensiveness - all games are the same).
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Meh. I donât do those either. I do skill point side quests and thatâs about it. After 3k hours, I wanna get out of campaign ASAP. ALso the 1 or 2 respecs you get are not valuable enough for my time. Especially in PoE where the market is very demanding and time is most certainly money.
It is, but you insist on comparing different things. If you want to compare passive respecs with LE, then youâre talking about the passive tree respec. And LE is much more forgiving to respec because it only costs you a few gold. You have more than enough gold to keep fully respecing your passive tree in LE, as opposed to PoE where you only get a few respec points from quests and you wonât likely see regrets drop until maps in any meaningful amount.
If youâre talking about skills, then you have to compare LE skills to PoEâs skill gems. At low-mid level, if you want to respec a skill in LE youâll drop from 7-8 level to 2-3 and quickly get back to the level you were due to accelerated XP. If you want to change skills in PoE at early game, you have to buy a new skill gem from the vendor and level it up fully once again.
So unless youâre comparing respecing the passive tree in PoE with respeccing skills in LE, which are two different things, I donât see how you can say that LE is more punishing than PoE at low levels.
The only time PoE is easier to respec skills is when you can buy max level skills. And the fact you can switch them with impunity makes it so that most builds have a few alternate gems you carry around so you can switch for bosses. Which is everything that LE doesnât want.
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Last Epoch is super casual.
PoE is the most hardcore ARPG out there.
Why are you guys comparing apples and oranges in the first place?
Not one person here who has expressed frustration with LEâs respeccing system has compared LE skills to PoE skill gems. Itâs not a comparison I accept. All the LE skills have passive points. PoE skill gems are just gems with levels. Respeccing those skill points is what the complaints are about. No-one is complaining about the masteries section. That is something you guys have inserted into the discussion.
(Anyway, if you are going to swap skills in PoE you either prepare by slotting the skill gem in your secondary items so it levels by the time you need it for free, or more likely, buy a fully leveled 21/20 gem - one of the options LEâs system by itâs nature excludes.)
But itâs also a moot point. It doesnât matter how itâs defined. The current experience of the system is poor for many players. Telling people they are looking at it incorrectly in response is just obtuse. Itâs a bad experience for them.
We are going around in circles now. Itâs not quick. Thatâs the entire point. Itâs only quick at endgame (or so you guys say, and I donât dispute it).
I guess that depends on your definition of quick and your tolerance for it. Yes, in endgame you can get your skills back in a few minutes. But even in early game itâs quick. I have repeatedly respecced ALL of my skills at once during early campaign because I like to start my build right away and watch it grow. In all those cases (even a full respec at level 15 or 16) I had no issues continuing the campaign and skills were back to full power in 30 minutes of active play (meaning I didnât have to backtrack to farm XPs for it, I just kept playing the campaign).
I just picked up the game yesterday and I am hooked. At first I was so annoyed about the respec issue, but then I thought about it and realized itâs actually a good thing. It really makes me think about what I want to do. Sure it would be fun to respec but it is making me think first about where I want to put the points and then after that how I can best use them without respec-ing to maintain my level with them. I think I may be more cerebral than some about this but I donât see it as a downside. Of course, Iâm only level 8 so this thought could changeâŚ