This is really close to my approach too. I think it’s weird people are trying to assume the problem is with people not knowing how to use it rather than that the system inherently triggers negativity bias more than positivity bias simply due to human psychology.
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Nailed it.
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Honestly I get what you and others are saying… I really do… Thats why I prefaced my post with the statement that its not perfect… I dont think anything LE does will be perfect but its probably got a ways to go before it reaches a happy medium. I just really hope it doesnt end up with everyone and their dog running around with perfectly rolled T20 gear. Sure it will not but hey…
I suppose my general view on this is very much related to how I play games. Its obviously not a common thing, but I spend more time trying to figure out how to play within the parameters I am given than worrying about how to change it to something I would prefer or that I think would be better. I suppose its this approach that makes me less frustrated about things… Not saying I like every game I play and I will definitely stop playing a game if I find that how the game wants me to do something sucks beyond my tolerances but it does make for a more relaxed time overall… 
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It was intended as a tip rather than “here’s what you need to do to stop hating and instead start loving the crafting system.”.
I love GD but outside of crafting epic/legendary items, it has an absolutely terrible crafting system for rares. What’s that, you crafted 500 boots and only got a single pair with the 1 desired affix and another decent one? Wow, that’s damn lucky.
Pic related, it’s what 20 million iron bits look like:
https://i.imgur.com/mQUYM8k.png
Just so people understand, there are 285 prefixes and 544 suffixes these boots can roll, additionally, only half of those are the higher tiered “rare” type affixes, and an item doesn’t even have to roll both a pre and suf, and instead leave it blank.
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I understood that. I was just highlighting how odd it is that people are assuming other people can’t/haven’t figured this game out and want to form their points around that assumption.
I agree, mostly, but the base implicits on a lot of rares you can craft make it so you might be able to choose 1 of 20 or 30 suffixes that are ‘close enough’ even if it doesn’t land on “of Kings.” To truly min-max your build, however… you probably should just get an item editor, lol. That system does have its weaknesses too. The difference is that it seems a lot easier to make something usable with that system than with LE’s XCOM-style crafting.
https://i.imgur.com/ow012BU.png
One thing that might help a bit, though, is that instead of the craft being strictly pass/fail, have a step between success and fracture which is just “Failed, but nothing happens.”
I don’t think it would eliminate the core problems of this system, but it might be a bit more palatable.
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I take a little exception with the XCOM comparison because you have a real world representation of the scenario that makes the percentage seem ridiculous. That’s not what’s happening here at all.
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Something like critical success but when it would otherwise have fractured the item, nothing happens, would be a good addition (though should be at a slightly higher rate than crit success).
But like you said, if someone is dissatisfied with the RNG’y nature of the system, this is just adding another layer on top of it.
Overall I’m pretty satisfied with the system so it’s hard for me to think of solutions for the things people dislike about it.
What games? Western MMO’s like WoW where all crafted items are identical? Again in terms of RNG in ARPG crafting, this is very lenient.
How do you define “success”? Anything besides terminal failure?
Your system just switches the value of shards and a good base around. Now bases are worth less and all you need is a dumptruck of material. But looting material is far less exciting than an item with nice affixes.
Thing is, if the loot is gotten by RNG and the stat values are determined by RNG, how would you realistically make a crafting system with no RNG at all that is balanced by being neither a waste of time nor the only way of getting gear?
We both know what makes ARPGs grindy, of course it’s the hunt for loot.
But what game in the genre offers a guarantee system similar to what you describe?
That’s fair, but the binary nature of those failures seems ridiculous–especially when it’s like 2-5% chance to fail. It just hard bricks the item, period. It just doesn’t feel good when crafting boils down to a game of Russian Roulette.
Well for me its still broken, 320 hours played and two tier 20 items.
Hence why im no longer playing outside maybe 1 hour a week. When I check this thread though and see people talk about how easy it is to make tier 20 items it just reinforces my desire to not play b/c I know im the one getting screwed over.
I’ll repeat the question I posed RawSuicide:
Thing is, if the loot is gotten by RNG and the stat values are determined by RNG, how would you realistically make a crafting system with no RNG at all that is balanced by being neither a waste of time nor the only way of getting gear?
Or maybe you simply want to make the RNG of crafting more lenient, rather than remove its chance completely? But again it comes down to balance, if you want to keep the concept of the current crafting system you still need to figure out a way to not make the quality of the item base redundant.
I sort of answered this before you even asked, but I’m really torn between whether the RNG should be removed entirely in favor of another system or if it just needs more adjustments made to make this one not just tolerable, but actually enjoyable.
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Just what kind of bases are you using? I think vapourfire was pretty spot on with this comment:
And you really don’t need T20 for “soft” minmaxing (whilst “hard” minmaxing would require you to actually get T7 bases which has nothing to do with crafting RNG).
T17-T18 is more than plenty. Of course you’ll usually want your prefixes maxed and a lot of builds highly value suffixes on their weapons. But generally speaking you can keep your armor suffixes at T3-T4 and still meet resistance and crit avoidance caps, with room to spare
Oh that’s my bad then.
I realize that asking what’s needed for the RNG crafting system to become enjoyable and at the same time balanced is a very large question that can’t really be answered just so.
But as to removing the RNG aspect entirely, do you really see it as even being possible, other than simply removing all sorts of crafting, based on the premise of “a crafting system with no RNG at all that is balanced by being neither a waste of time nor the only way of getting gear”?
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What if you fractured affixes instead of items?
Currently if you try T4=>T5 below and fracture, the other affixes are unsalvageable. Success rate examples are not to scale.
Fractured:
- T3 - not craftable
- T4 - not craftable, this fractured the item
- T1 - not craftable
- blank - not craftable
Fractured affixes
Minor: T4 fractures, rest craftable
Moderate: T4 and T3 fracture, rest craftable
Severe: T4, T3, and T1 fracture, blank slot craftable
Total: same as current
So there would still be RNG, but “failure states” might feel more nuanced. “Minor” would translate to “minor/recoverable” instead of “you can no longer craft on this”. “Severe” would mean a tangible jump instead of “beating a dead horse”.
There are also some interesting directions this could be taken in. For example, imagine if success rates for affixes were independent. Currently T1=>T2 or T0=>T1 would also lower success rates for the T3 and T4. This is still a superior strategy for total affixes but also makes T4/T5 harder than they really are (by themselves). Viewed pessimistically, this boils down to whether T4=>T5 is more desirable than T1=>T2 and T0=>T1 combined. But if T1=>T2/T0=>T1 were independent, each success rate would be WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).
Also, a fractured affix opens up interactions with runes. Suppose you could annul/cleanse it to salvage a base. Or suppose you couldn’t (as in PoE), and cleansing the item would ignore the fractured affix (with success rate penalties for the other three slots).
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Thats the only thing i agree with.
I hope there will be some easy low tier crafts that arent gambling.
Iam however glad that it isnt easy to craft mirror tier items to easily as in POE.
Also the drop system of exalted items being only able to get of drops is a real good system aswell in my opinion.
I just think that only gamble crafts even for the tier 1’s should be 1 way lower or 2 just for materials without the breaking mechanic. Its not fun breaking items with trash tiers on it which happend way more then it should in my opinion 
This is an extremely interesting idea. I wonder if having it in conjunction with the spending extra shards for better odds (even if they had a limit, rather than going to 100%) with scaling costs per total tier of the item could put this into a better spot.
It doesn’t get away from the RNG, but it does give you a lot more control and even some strategic options about how you want to go about the whole process.
I think this is definitely worth exploration.
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I do too, but it’s also why I think the crafting itself doesn’t need to be so punishing.
Edit:
This becomes even more true as we get more difficult content and access to higher tiers of affixes, 8+.
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Yeah to me Minor fractured doesnt actually feel like minor. Especially on those lower tiers
-_-
I think it should be punishing so the item drops are still worth it aswell. However the balance is off in my opinion. The costs of using glyphs and materials just to make a tier 3 item and break it is just mad 
Because of the exalted system i assumed that the lower tiers would be easier to get.
They could even restrict it at a certain level. So to be clear: at level 60 you only pay materials for tier ones and tier 2’s or after level 60 the instabillity of lower tiers are reduced.
Why it higher level? Because you get better gear anyway so lower tiers arent that usefull as in early game. At the same time you dont make the crafting system overpowered in the early leveling stage.
I think the crafting system on lower tiers is to punishing. Iam not saying its impossible to make higher tier items.
Iam stating that its just not fun/fair to get minor fractured items with items that only has tier 2’s and/or 3’s. Sometimes even with 1 and 2’s and maybe one 3.
I know mike stated that he tested the system a lot which i believe but having a chance of 85% and breaking it so many times at those lower tiers should be reduced in my opinion.
Iam not opting for easy crafting mirror tier items. Iam opting on having a better chance and especially a fairer and fun expierence while starting with crafting.
Now i get good bases and often i dont get behind tier 3 like i said before. I even use the 2-5 glyph first before i use the add 5 stabillity one.
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I think just paying extra shards for better odds is a better approach. We need a proper sink for them anyway.
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I actually like that idea. But only for the lower tiers.
Like i said before, item drops still should have a use even beside the exalted items 