(General comment not aimed at anyone specific, but relevant to the thread replied to)
I disagree entirely that a player paying some money to buy a game gives him any right to make demands of the developers, especially one that is in beta/early access. One doesn’t make demands of musicians to rewrite the songs one almost likes, yes? Don’t say, “Music is just a matter of taste”; the opinions on whether the developers should update character classes now are also just “taste”. Not every patch will be for every player, nor is it realistic to expect anything else.
Deciding for the developers what time frame in which they need to do “all the things” really is both arrogant and disrespectful, particularly because they have a track record of paying very careful attention to the community. Each person on the team only has a finite amount of time to work on the game from day to day, regardless of how fast players like to think people can write code or create game assets/maps etc.
Your patch will come. Try not to ruin the experience for others while you wait for it.
I love the concept of the rework - I do think how the primary questline started previously is a bit flat overall. Expanding on the story and lore, overhauling assets and vistas, all sounds very promising to improving the new player experience (of which we all hope to see many of in the future months!).
What I don’t quite understand : It’s a one-time cost game for a lot of us, why would someone waiting it in a way like dev team owe the player debt and need to repay money to them every 3~6 month?
Isn’t the price player paid already worth it for the content so far?
(I feel this may relate to dev team letting the player expect too much. This situation seems to hurt this community.)
And I don’t think money paid for the game can be factoring out of the equation, it might be just a small portion, but it won’t have no effect at all.
Normally if you pay more, you probably expect more.
But if you pay little and demand a lot or frequently, well… that’s strange.
If I paid $3 for a food and don’t like it, I’ll be sad and walk away, I won’t bother my time telling the cook how to make it taste better or how their food sucks and should be improve.
If I paid $100 for a food and it’s not making me believe worth than $30, I’ll rage like a baby
I think this is what I trying to explain :
If someone pay $20 (just for example) while expecting to get value way more than $20, that’s somewhat greedy and unreasonable to me.
No one knew about this chapter 1 revamp. No one expected it. No one needed it. No one was complaining about the existing chapter 1 whatsoever. Existing chapter 1 was not only fine, but irrelevant.
On the other hand everyone knows about the bugs, the missing classes, the trade system, the monotonous endgame and other much more serious issues that cause CONCERN.
It must have taken a considerable amount of effort to redo chapter 1, so to players with concern about the genuine issues, it is rather frustrating to say the least that the devs invested so much in something that no one knew they even wanted. Especially when there are threads all over the place complaining about having to run the campaign for every alt anyway. Campaign is already too long/irrelevant for many.
Ahh, well that’s not entirely true. Mike did mention it during several dev streams that I highlighted in my post below – which were only the most recent occurrences as they’ve talked about bringing all the chapters up to Chapter 9’s quality for a long time now. If anything you should expect further chapter updates in future patches.
This my biggest and only gripe with Last Epoch at the moment.
I love the game and how EHG handles feedback, however i expected more endgame focus and those chapter reworks etc after that.
I really would love to have more to do in the endgame.
Especially with the monoliths which is the core system and should be the pinnacle of wanting to keep playing endgame in my opinion at least.
The changes EHG do make so far, also with the chapter 1 looks stunning and seem like good changes. The timing is my biggest issue. Iam worried about endgame being to shallow a lot since they teased 1.0 release being this year. Since iam a pretty hardcore player when it comes to endgame in other ARPG’s and also in this one to a certain extend iam worried the same type of player as me will not play this game long in endgame as it is.
To end with a positive.
I love that there is new itemization and Fire pen resist is fixed so can revisit my fire mage.
I remember I have read some threads about how the game’s opening is too vague or not compact (something like that, sorry for my poor english)
But you are mostly right, lots of people are aware of the bug and looking forward to the new mastery class / trade system etc…
By the way, I’m probably the super minority kind of player in this game, my favorite part is the story and mood this game provides, despite some believe the story itself is kind of sh*te.
The first time I saw the name of Zerrick and Harton back in the old era,
I was like NOOO what happen to them!!
And the time I arrived The end of time, it’s so sad that it make me want to cry…
To me, the strong 50 hours campaign story is way better than an ok 300 hours monolith end game grind, but someone will just say fu*k that its ARPG genre, grind it or leave it…
— off the topic —
I doubt anything in this world that is mostly repetitive can be brilliant all the way.
If some repetitive content (especially games) takes more than 500~1000 hours, It’s really unlikely to be a great thing to me at all.
If Last epoch will set some new milestone in the arpg genre in the future,
I truly hope its not : Hey, this game has OK end game content that can make me grind 500hours while still tolerating it, and it’s slightly better than D4 or what.
Oh, I disagree. Monoliths are not the end game at all. They are simply for farming gear. I mean there is no point pushing corruption past the point where your clear speed becomes inefficient, right.
The end game is the (endless) Arena. Infinitely scalable and consistent every time. How else can you see how truly strong your build is? You can push it as far as you can without bricking anything or doing yourself harm.
If you like ARPG campaigns, I’d recommend Grim Dawn. It’s the best campaign I’ve ever encountered in an ARPG, and delivers a really great story. I levelled 40 endgame chars in that game over 3k hours and never tired of the campaign, unlike LE where first time through was plenty and I never wanted to see it again. And the GD campaign is MUCH longer than this one.
im a player when LE was only single play and now that close to 1.0 ver. I love LE but am still unhappy with the campaign story, and items display (I equipped Last Laugh but my chac only carried a big sword, not like a Last Laugh - the unique item) and I love to see when items break when out of forging potential from a very old version.
No but if you paid full price for an album and got 75% of the songs and were promised the others were coming soon then thats the difference
The cost is meaningless, it doesnt matter if the game is $10 or $100 people want the full product and let me tell you if I could of paid $100 for the game to get it much faster I would without question
Agreed, and other people should be able to express their disagreement with said disappointment, or state how the updates affect them and what their perspective on it is.
From where I’m sitting, community forums can turn into a bit of a hive-mind for negativity sometimes, so having disagreeing voices in the mix to agree for or against something is nice to have.
I’m excited for this new update and will voice my opinion on (not really) opposition to those who seem to post more negatively or cynically about it.
Posters should 100% be allowed to express both excitement or disappointment over certain features, and having a discussion regarding these things is where actual good criticism and improvements are found.
When the only disappointment being expressed though is something along the lines of “No one wanted this,” it doesn’t really add anything or help the team at EHG in any regard. It’s just sort of negative for the sake of it.
It also doesn’t really help when half the criticisms are about features like trading, or the missing masteries, to which we’ve been told over and over again when those are coming and when to expect them. It’s a lot of the time people who haven’t looked into things or read a news post who then turn around and whine about information that’s easily accessible like it’s some secret EHG is keeping from us.
Yes, people normally want full product with the price they paid, but I won’t expect $10 game to perform like $100 one.
So of course the cost matters when it comes to expect something and how to expect.
And I probably won’t be anywhere serious about the game under $5, would you?
Daydreaming, huh? My turn!
I’m willing to pay $200 to play the character that can switch between offline and online mode while early access the warlock class after patch 0.9.1
God no. Arena is the most numbingly boring thing I have ever experienced. Each to their own, but for me things like Monoliths are far more varied and allow for pushing to high levels to test your builds - granted the lack of decent corruption scaling and monolith modifiers can be spicy at times and definitey need some work, but its still way less boring for me.
That doesn’t make any sense at all. You’ve made the choice to pay full price for an incomplete product and therefore accept that a) you need to wait for the last 25% and b) you might not enjoy what will ultimately be delivered. You’ve placed yourself in a bad position and complaining isn’t going to make any difference unless the artist is honest, in which case your complaints don’t need to be aired because the product will be delivered with roughly the quality you expect. If you got scammed, well, who is to blame for not doing their homework?
I stated at the beginning that I found it difficult to understand where this entitled attitude of players being able to make demands of developers after having paid for a game (complete or otherwise) came from. I’ve seen a few comments that miss the point.
I agree wholeheartedly that ordering a meal for $100 but getting something nowhere near that quality is deserving of a complaint. However, you’ve not actually paid for the meal at this point. Must restaurants will permit you to send the food back and let the chef try again, but not if you’ve already eaten the whole thing. So that’s not really an equivalent situation to a paid-for early access game. There are many ways of dealing with the restaurant situation as well, the cleanest being to taste the food, sent it back, taste the retry and then walk out without paying for anything you didn’t actually consume.
If people want to protect themselves from being exploited by paying for games they think will ultimately disappoint them, well, the best solution is to wait until release before buying. The only thing that forces people to buy a product early is fomo, and ultimately they’re the ones taking the risk. Don’t think that gives them any right to demand things of the developers.
Offering constructive criticism is something completely different, and most developers will heed that in the interests of making a better product, unless said feedback misses or misunderstands key aspects of the game design and/or would actually make the game worse in the minds of the designer(s). That EGH have shown a willingness to heed constructive criticism makes these complaints even more out of place.