Boring and problematic end-game

There’s a checkbox on the character creation page to make the new character self-found thus making its progression totally independent from your other toons. There’s a good reason most people never choose that option. I’d personally make much less alts if it couldn’t use the items I found on my main because it doesn’t have the required rank.

Being forced to do normal monoliths on a toon that would already be capable of doing 4-500 corruption is really, really, really, really, really boring. I’ve literally fell asleep in my chair many times on my alts because running through monos that offer absolutely zero challange is really, really, really, really, really, really boring.


Check this out. Dev chat 126 at minutes 03:50 they talk about corruption levels.

The point is that you don’t know if a build can clear certain corruption levels until they do. I appreciate that you can be very confident that it can, especially when people copy/paste builds from the internet but it still has to pass the player competence test with that build. Admittedly most copy/paste meta builds look like walking simulators, which I can’t imagine being to difficult. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::+1:

This is just factually wrong and again you said it yourself, you aren’t qualified. If I see someone using HH/Divine bolt and have all the same gear I just copy their build planner and I know I can clear 500+ corruption. It’s been done. It’s been proven and that is why build planners and guides exist. We know for a fact what the build can do.

There isn’t a lot of mystery about builds anymore. They have all been done and we know what type of content they are all capable of. Even the non meta builds. There is no point in having weeks of pointless grinding that achieves nothing except waste time. Again that is bad design and hurts player retention. We don’t want that if we want LE to grow.

The point is having a better game for everyone. You haven’t once said how your arguments make LE better for players. You haven’t made a valid point in your favor, you just oppose what we are saying to argue for the sake of argueing.

So with that said think everything that needed to be said was said. Gonna enjoy the rest of my day and see my way out of this thread.

Yeah, I usually watch Mike’s stream when I can catch it, I’m familiar with what he and the dev team think about “healthy” corruption levels but in reality, it’s very easy to create builds that can easily go past that line even without perfect gear.

I’m currently leveling a rogue trapper alt, not the obviously busted and probably bugged Jelkhor detonating arrow version, it’s my home-made throw damage/crit multi stacker build that procs acid flasks with explosive traps and umbral blades with aerial assault. Umbral blades has 5 million tooltip dps on the target dummy, and around 1.5-2 million on the move when I have only 50 stacks on dusk shrouds instead of 120. Everything dies in milliseconds because I’m still at like 150 corruption, not even finished all my blessings. I’m fairly confident it could do higher corruption.

A corruption slider would be a lifesaver for me because I wouldn’t fall asleep doing my empowered blessings on 100 corruption. I’m not even joking about falling asleep, I really did fall asleep countless times on this alt.

If we had a corruption slider that allowed you to set corruption between 100 and your highest corruption then you could set the difficulty level according to your alt’s power level and the game would be much less boring when leveling alts.

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that is a good idea. I have the prpblem with corruption even for my main char, not for alts, I play a single mono cause that is corruption 550 and the rest are max 300 and need to upgrade them which is boring. I have 2 unplayed monos cause that are corruption 100…
but ya, fun is forbidden in this game.

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Hope that you’re enjoying the build. It does sound really powerful! I landed a couple of those daggers and also decided not to use them, as they just break the build and, if we are honest, it’s the build carrying the player. I think this is something Mike will be trying to avoid. How? I don’t know, as I think traditionally ARPGs are like semi afk games that you chill to. At least for me anyway. I’m sure opinions differ.

You raise a point that I completely forgot about too! Getting the better blessings will require you to do all of the monoliths. So being able to rerun and get the right ones may take a few runs too. I was lucky on my main and got 59% gold on the first run, but my other characters, not so much. :frowning:

I think the only thing that I don’t like about the game is the broken abilities that allow silly numbers of dps. All I do to rectify that though is to stay away from them. Hopefully when the first real seasons come out it’ll be a bit more challenging. I think with the few new ARPGs coming out this year, we’ll likely see a slight shift in the semi afk ARPGs and the tactical ones. It’s going to be a fun year! :slight_smile:

Blessings will be reworked. You’ll be able to pick from the ones you already unlocked. No idea if it will come for 1.1, though.


I’m making a Van Helsing build at the moment as a Falconer. Abilities are: Falconer, Ballista, Traps with Caltrops, Aerial Assault and Puncture (as it procs with traps too).
Still getting used to it. I see it does lots of dps compared to my other characters but I’m hoping it’s not optimal and I tests me when I go through monoliths. :slight_smile:

Ah, that’ll be nice. What about the %s? Can you choose the highest of previous unlocked, or is it another reroll? That sounds a good change.

There are no details yet, but in his streams Mike implied that it’s the highest unlocked so far. And you will be able to switch them whenever you want. We’ll have to wait for details about it, though.

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Oh ok nice, that sounds interesting. Maybe change it in our player housing?……. :joy: I think that’s a bit to far but it would be awesome! Glad I’m not farming them now then. Just playing the game and trying the skills and classes out. Sod’s Law is that I’ll get crap rolls when we have the real seasons though! :joy:

I think the plan is to just change them directly on the character screen where you currently check the blessings. But again, no details yet.

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Ok, thanks. I’ll keep my peepers open. :hugs:
Thanks again for the info.

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Well, all builds that people want to actually play… never say all 'cause there’s no way you can get a random assortment of gear and passives and call it a “build.” It’s not that I disagree with you, but assuming that everybody is going to copy and paste builds from other players excludes tons of people who like creating their own build ideas.

As for a fast way to increase corruption, well, what does increasing corruption actually do? All builds end up at a point where they either just destroy all the content or get one-shot; there’s rarely any case where people find that equilibrium where they find the challenge engaging while being able to recover from danger where they get killed and not killed instantly. Additionally, the death screen doesn’t show how much damage you take from the biggest attack, so you can’t tell if a particular mob is tankable at that corruption or whether people are out of their league (though DoTs that shred health quickly would be more problematic because it would appear the player is taking reasonable damage, but it doesn’t show that the damage is performed many times per second to lead to a figurative one-shot).

I mean, it’s not like increasing Corruption leads to new Boss battles or different mechanics from bosses, so what would a “corruption” skip look like? The only thing that separates a 100 Corruption boss battle and 500 Corruption boss battle is how long it takes to kill, so maybe some sort of timer that if you kill the boss in a particular time, you can reach a higher corruption faster?

I admit I worry people are just going to be so focused on the numbers (must reach 500 or 1000 corruption) that they’ll take a build up to 500, if they die, they just throw the build away and pick another build until they find one that takes it up to that level and play that. I’d much rather have faster corruption increases be tied to player skill than simply throwing a bunch of builds at a high corruption and pick the one that “sticks.”

I’ll reiterate, I have no problem with people who want to take harder content faster; it’s that there’s no clear way what constitutes a “hard” corruption compared to “easy” corruption that allows players to select a level that provides a reasonable challenge where the player feels the rewards are worth the challenge.

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Right now, you can pick any damage skill you want and it can carry you to empowered using only that skill and gear.
You might bork your build entirely and fail to do so, but simply asking for help on the forum will have plenty of players advising you on how to improve it without changing the build too much. Though I expect it’s actually harder to bork your build in such a way that you can’t do empowered monos.

Things might change in the future as they rebalance stuff, but right now, it’s easy for any build to do empowered monos.

Arena desperately needs a save point function. I am fine with the time investment but my internet connection is not.

Challenge? Fun?

LFG channel works surprisingly well

I must admit I am genuinely surprised by how quickly the player base seems to have fallen off. I judge this by the activity in chat. It’s an absolute ghost town now. Yesterday I played 6 hours straight and saw less than a half dozen message in chat, half of which were bots selling gold. It was much busier than this BEFORE 1.0 release.

This game is fantastic at encouraging Alt creation, this is really the endgame right now. Make an Alt, use the nice stuff that dropped for that Alt, but were not useful for your main, and go from there. The problem is that this places the game between 2 worlds… Alt creation and Cycle-based play do not often go together in any practical sense.

I completely agree. When I saw the devs first priority for extending endgame was pinnacle bosses, I just sighed. So BORING. You could make 10 tiers of difficulty for every boss in the game and that would still be BORING as an endgame extension.

Pinnacle bosses in video games are like bullet sponge enemies. Artificial extension of playtime and not fun. Don’t do it. It’s dull as dishwater.

That seems unlikely given how much the dev have said they do NOT want players to be able to re-spec on the fly to make themselves stronger for the next encounter. This is the reason you lose half your skill points if you respec a skill. Swapping blessings on the fly would be even more powerful than a re-spec, and thus - presumably - is completely contrary to the devs’ vision.

Nitpick: You WILL have to faction favour every Cycle, as recently confirmed by the devs. Since many players make one char per Cycle then quit for a bit and come back at next Cycle to start again, most characters will indeed have to farm rep all over again from nothing. Every Cycle.

It has to be like that, because a player starting a new Cycle at rank 10 of either faction would have such an huge advantage over a player starting a new char that it would be very unfair to allow rep to carry over Cycles. I assume gold will not carry over Cycles for the same reason but I am not sure about that one.

Obviously, you have to start from zero for each cycle, that’s kind of the point of leagues/seasons/cycles/whatevers and you’re probably right about most people creating only one character per cycle but those people don’t come here posting and they stop playing before any issues in this topic would start to affect them :smiley:

Last Epoch encourages you to create multiple characters and the devs don’t mind your alts being much stronger from the beginning. If they wanted to prevent twinking then legendaries would have the level requirement of the slammed exalted items instead of the unique. If you are allowed to use items intended for level 80 characters at level 5 essentially skipping the chores of a low level character then why aren’t you allowed to skip the chores of low corruption monoliths?

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I think most ARPGs are like this. In LE case it’s because season 1 doesn’t have season content to get your teeth stuck into. Later seasons will be different but remember that a lot of players don’t sink in as much time in the game as the vocal few on forums. It’s also worth noting that typically ARPGs are normally simple games without much challenge outside farming RNG, game play wise, they tend to be walking simulators for the vocal minority who choose plug and play meta builds. They tend to Zerg the content playing 8+hrs a day. Obviously this is generalising a more complex environment but I think it holds well in general. I’m sure most people play ARPGs in bursts. They play a lot, then they dump it and wait for new content/season and then they come back. This is a great way to enjoy ARPGs imho and I’d even say it’s the best way to enjoy most games as it allows you to enjoy new experience and develop a more mature outlook on games and life in general.

When we have season content, additional endgame content and additional items that allow for more fun builds then I’m sure people will be happy.

It’s also worth noting that it’s ok to play other games too. Treat games like you treat food. A varied pallet is a healthy pallet. :hugs:

I’ve played about 400hrs of LE, mainly offline and CoF and I’m enjoying it. I try and make my own fun in games by choosing a build guide to take me through most of the game in order to learn it, then I play the game for real and create my own fun builds all focused on things I picked up along the way I.e. I’ve a couple of items (2h Sword, Relic and Boots) that all hint at a bleeding and leeching mechanics, so I’m in the process of building a vampire Rogue with a 2h Sword. It helps that I’ve not seen anything like this online, so how well it does is going to be a surprise! :joy: