I had thought about putting her forge at every single harbinger fight.
t1 any, t2 100 corr through t4 at 300 corr.
That doesn’t make it faster than Julra if you really need it, but it gives you plenty of slam options along regular gameplay to slam all those uniques you only kept to eventually slam for another build.
Sol has a point in the fact I have a trove of items I’ll never slam but I just hoard instead for the Hopes / plans to hopefully slam .
I honestly only try and slam and grind my chase items rather then slamming , build ideas or theory crafting items .
That would also be a fine idea. Though maybe confusing for new players.
Maybe make the harbinger fight give you one slam with the limits you suggested and with the amounts we have now (so just 1 slam per harbinger) and change Julra for the cumulative effect I last suggested, so that if you have a bunch of low level uniques you can do a T4 Julra and slam 8 of them at once.
Thematically that makes no sense. Not trying to be a hater here, but at some point EHG is going to have to make a change. Here’s my suggestion;
So you unlock the forge once. But if you want chances to try again for the affix you want, you need to fight Julra again.
Still a reason to fight Julra, but if you just want to slam something and take your chances, have at it.
This won’t happen though. It’s unrealistic to think this change will happen until we have higher tiers of BiS gear (maybe 1.2 primal ancients will be enough?).
Because the bottom line is that EHG (and many players) don’t want you to get the best possible gear without investing a lot of time and effort into it. And having to go through Julra is part of that.
So all you’re suggesting is removing a part of it without replacing it with something equivalent. That effectively makes getting BiS easier without any downsides.
This is one of those ‘shrug’ moments where we agree to disagree and then wait and watch what EHG does.
I think we can agree that the current version is tedious and time consuming. So EHG definitely has to remove either the tedium or the time consuming parts. If something is fun, it’s ok that it takes a long time. If something isn’t fun, no one (except for Heavy) is sticking around to finally get the thing to drop AND slam correctly.
If EHG can’t come up with ideas to make dungeons fun (i.e. remove the tedium), then I think the reality is that they need to remove the time consuming part of it.
Even if they remove the dungeon part of the Julra fight, doing the same fight every single time just to slam something is a different form of tedium. They are going to bleed players if they can’t make that fight fun.
I actually enjoy this part of watching a new dev shop grow. They naively released Legendary Potential as something extra on top, totally don’t chase this, it’s so super rare just be super happy if even a 3 ever drops… and you have to do all these things to get it, it’s only for people who’ve done everything else (Note: this is just my view/recollection of how they revealed LP). And now it is all anyone can talk about. Now we watch how the dev reacts to their Frankenstein monster rampaging around the countryside!
Everything you do is a different form of tedium. Removing Julra will just lead to you spending hours on end just putting stuff in the forge and slamming hoping for a decently “meh” item or better to drop.
At least this way you prioritize what you want to slam, exactly because of all the hoops you have to jump through.
If you don’t have those hoops, then you just slam everything mindlessly because there’s never any downside to it.
How is that possible though? Fun is very subjective. There have been plenty of people in this thread already that have stated they like the dungeon design and find it fun.
If you change it to something else you’re just moving goalposts where some different players like it and some different players don’t.
Case in point, there are plenty of people in Poe that find delve fun. I absolutely loathe it.
So I think the best solution won’t be to remove the dungeon or redesign it, but rather offer other equivalent ways of doing the same thing. That way each can choose what they like best.
I’m a fan of the higher julra the more items of the lower tier you can slam .
Having a perm unlock isn’t the way of an Arpg imo.
But allowing more slams would be rewarding and actually allow more item crafting and rewarding
It is literally the job of a game developer to make fun. They make something, and if they are like the Blizzard of old, they iterate the shit out of it until they find it fun, then they release it.
If they are a smaller indy shop, they iterate less.
Then they release it into the wild and listen for player feedback. Player feed back on the Julra dungeon is, “it’s not fun”. I haven’t seen a single person in any of these threads ever say they found the dungeon part fun. If it’s not fun, try something else to make it fun, or shorten it to remove the tedium, or remove the need to do the activity so that those doing it actually want to do it for itself rather than to get what is behind it, or just leave it as is because you have an idea for another fun activity.
But, at the end of the day, if all the end game things you have to do aren’t fun… well that is a bad place to be.
Granted, it was a long thread and it quickly derrailed, but there were people saying they enjoyed it.
I also find Sanctum fun. I don’t find Arbor fun, though. And I think Bastion is ok.
They did. Dungeons have been around for a long time before launch. People enjoyed it. The devs, as players, enjoyed it. Some people won’t enjoy it, but whatever you come up with will always be true.
So, once again, fun is very subjective. That’s why ARPGs are a niche genre to begin with. Because the majority of players, and even the majority of RPG players, don’t find ARPGs fun.
And I can guarantee you that any alternative design you can come up with there will always be people that don’t think it’s fun.
Much like PoE has dozens of endgame systems and there isn’t a single one that everyone will say that it’s fun.
Just to add … Some of the reasons I enjoy LE’s dungeons is that they aren’t straight forward, they give you a unique utility skill, you need to take a different path every time, and they end with bosses who have real boss mechanics. I find this different from dungeons in most other games and that’s a nice fresh take on them. You don’t just run down caves and hallways until a boss fight, you actually need to navigate and it changes each run.
I enjoy TS specifically because I think it’s really neat that you travel back and forth thru time to find doorways, and different enemies appear. I have no issues navigating the dungeon, and Julra is a very predictable fight once you’re used to her.
I think it comes down to sticking an endgame utility into leveling/low tier content (sure, t4 Julra herself qualifies for more, but the dungeon doesn’t). An endgame utility players would want to do very often but removes them from their endgame loop because it’s located off the shore of Desolace for whatever reason.
So let’s just go with the suggestion to put a forge after each harbinger.
At least three people, I stand corrected.
I think if I was doing it ‘for itself’, I wouldn’t find it so tedious. But I’m not, I’m doing it to slam something, so it’s tedious. Making the slam part of the ‘reward’, and there being a good chance that is the only part of the reward I care about… I just don’t like it. For me, it makes it more tedious.
Yes. As I said, that is a fair point.
Which is why I said that the best solution would be to provide other equivalent mechanics to achieve the same thing. That way each person can do the one they enjoy the most.
Much like PoE provides several different mechanics for the same thing.
No EHG does not have to change anything. While it might happen, maybe it will not happen.
I disagree with this being time consuming (at least if bugs are resolved). The only thing that makes this time consuming and tedious is when you run into the infinite loading screen bug or die multiple times.
Former one needs to be fixed for sure. Even I had some “OH MY GOD NOT AGAIN” moments when I couldn’t do a single legendary craft after 30 mins and 9x infinite loading screen bug.
And if you die very often you don’t deserve the reward anyway.
While I am vocal minority in terms of what I like I am most definitely not the only one who likes the concept of legendary crafting being behind a dungeon.
Especially because of your other statements that EHG has to do something, I am disagreeing.
You could argue that EHG would have to do something regarding Mastery and skill Respec. And they still havn’t done anything despite people asking for that for years
It is not primarily because it is fun to have these kind of restrictions, but having them not just changes the game in a drastic way.
Which is supposed to be a huge part of LE. It’s just not fun to slam 100’s of items and it should be.
Like I said my personal vote isn’t a perm unlock ,
But I’d be cool with adding 1 more level to julra t5 julra
For double high level slams.
And t4 we get 1 highest level slam or 2-3 high level slams
T3 we get 3-4 mid lvl slams
T2 4 low to mid slams
T1 4 low lvls slams never above 4 slams on any tier dungeon but adding 3 additional slams would bring the theory crafting and item crafting up a massive degree.
For me adding 1 more julra difficulty that can only be beat by clean boss mechanic play for a double highest lvl slam chance would be fair and balanced.
This could actually be something eh!? I think it’s the best suggestion I’ve ever seen anyone give about Julra and the LP slamming as a whole actually.
It’s always more plausible to give feedback for the company to tweak and change something they already have going on, rather than suggesting them to create something new or remove something entirely from the game.
EHG most probably will never remove Julra if they’re not replacing it for something equivalent in terms of grind and efforts… But this I can very well see them implementing not so long in the future.
Ya I think that’s a perfect solution but add a t5 julra for 2 slams of the highest unique 
Also let it be known I’ve crashed out of temporal dungeon more then I’ve run it any one else have this problem ?
Why is it dungeons that crash me out the most ?
I do play steam deck but it happened 5 x in a row just recently…