Announcing 1.1 Refresh & Cycle Event - The Imperial Uprising

I’m prolly gonna play this variant of Earthquake Shaman, converted to spell, without any aftershocks. Using both Gathering Storm and Maelstrom converted to physical, so I can shred armor and get a huge boost on more global physical damage. The tooltip shows 1M damage on Earthquake, just need to find a way to sustain mana better now climbing empowered.

It’s the latest character I had going, and the one I had chosen to try and push as far as I could this cycle.
I just love the feeling of running around automatically proccing Maelstrom and Gathering storm, then suddenly pressing the EMP button to pulverize the elite mobs.
So I think I’ll try this as league starter, since the one I’m using right now was mostly built out of things I had already stashed since 1.1 started.

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It makes me so sad to see the State of Shaman, master of elements reduced to “I cast physical lightning bolts.” lol.

Like I’m sure it’s fun to play, but the fantasy! I remember in 0.8 and 0.9 I’d run around with Avalanche boulders falling around me and leaving frozen ground. Tornado converted to cold swirling around me and following me as I ran, Maelstrom and Tempest Strike giving me swirling auras that shredded enemies as my Tempest Strike summoned Storm Totems that had blizzards and thunder storms and Warcry was there too.

Then they reworked Tempest Strike and it sucks now, and removed cold conversion on tornado for a worthless fire conversion, and now Avalanche (while arguably better than it was before) can’t be used as an Aura like I used to.

I guess my Shaman is gone :frowning:

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I know exactly what you mean. Was one of the first builds I tried when I first got into LE.
But did you see they changed Avalanche’s tree quite a bit? This character I’m playing was originally meant to be a cold+light+physical Avalanche + EQ build, making Avalanche’s node “Crater” proc EQ on every third large boulder while channeling.

But I just couldn’t make it work and figured it would take some theory crafting longer than I’m currently inclined to do, so I just changed it to a full EQ physical/lightning spell. Really enjoying it so far… I love how the lightning bolts turn into boulders coming from the ground below monsters when converted to physical :smiley:

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I did! The new tree is better than the old one except for the fact that I can’t turn it into a long duration effect that follows me without channeling first. They should have turned that node into a toggled Aura effect with reduced damage that consumes mana per second. Basically like how Aura of Decay works. Except Avalanche boulders instead of poison xD

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Oh yeah, maybe that could also make the build work. It would be awesome, indeed.

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I have possibly 2 dumb questions. If the Market/Trade econ is ruined because of a gold dupe with prices outrageously inflated:

  1. Why haven’t the MG folks just switched over to CoF for the remainder of the cycle?
  2. Why not let the overly inflated items rot at auction so that sellers give up and lower their prices?

Please forgive me because I have not played MG faction at all and I’ve mostly ignored it in favor of CoF. This is because I favor the loot hunt over pseudo capitalism trade simulators that tend to be wide open to abuse and manipulation. This is the result of playing WoW for about 10 years and becoming quite turned off with its internal econ and bot armies that feed market manipulation. Also, if one has chosen MG faction I believe it implies that one is playing online and that one has not chosen SSF or SAF as they seem to be incongruent with trading on its face. I have not checked to see if one can pick SSF/SAF and MG faction.

If my assumption about online play normal play and MG faction access are correct then MG players have yet another means of circumventing the auction system, which is direct trade between players. If direct trade between MG players is available this means ANY moaning and groaning by the MG players should take on less weight because alternatives exist. Less weight does NOT mean insignificance. It means one has to accept the implicit side of the coin (not a plug) that comes with MG faction, which is market forces such as greed control access to loot (assuming what ever level of favor is met). Please correct me if I’m wrong.

We don’t have the ability to make clans/guilds in-game to organize ourselves into larger coordinated groups. However, the moment we do have access to clans/guilds, direct trade should directly impact the auction trade econ. even in the presence of dupping.

I have yet another possible dumb question. With this reset are we getting an extension of time on the current 1.1 cycle? I ask this because someone, between post #395 and #422 explained how a major patch and cycle could last well beyond a 3-4 month length, with 1 or more resets within that cycle. These resets can come with or without minor patches. IF (big fat IF) this upcoming reset was going to get the full assumed season length (to borrow a term from Diablo 3), THEN it is quite possible that the anger, rage, disappointment, and de-motivation would be much less. The lack of crystal clear communication on EHG’s part is in part fueling the anger, rage, etc. emotional responses. IF EHG were to communicate the following and commit to it of course:

  • <==== variable length cycle with major X.Y patch attachment ====>
  • <==== fixed length season within a cycle ====>
  • <==== semi-fixed length season within a cycle ====>
  • <=== resets between seasons with some resets on cycle boundaries ===>

I think there would be less opportunity for negative emotions. Lastly, EHG please, please, please, please, please 1000x more times, address the network stability issues so that I can play online. I need in-game connection/access to the awesomeness of the folks in this thread and more.

Thank you to everyone in this conversation regardless of point of view.

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I haven’t looked at this thread since the 2nd day and decided to look though it again.

It baffles me how people are just not understanding why so many of us do not like this proposal. The “play on legacy” argument is a non starter. Just stop with that reasoning cuz it is obvious y’all do not play on legacy and there are many reasons for that.

Just a few reasons.
Tabs
Ghost town and all that implies
Ladders
Still dupe economy
I could continue on but those are the most glaring of the reasons and as I pay for a game and was an original supporter ( still waiting to see why none of the forum tags are there) I should not be relegated to what I jokingly call “the NetherRealm” when friends and I speak of legacy toons.

I want to be able to complete my goals for this cycle , it is that simple. It is unfortunate that I will not be able to finish what I wanted to accomplish this cycle, which has me and many others I suspect, looking for a different game. The completionist in me is in rebellion :smiley:

I am not going to rehash all the arguments of communication, set cycle timeframes- i.e. 4 months, and the sheer amount of easier ways to address the duping as it is a dead horse at this point.

It is just disappointing as this game is fun for both the casual and the hardcore player. I have enjoyed it a lot.

May all your monsters be conquerable!
Cheers!

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@Scipo0419 and @F0lk,
You guys mind sharing planner links to the builds you were going to play after reset? I have not taken an interest in Primalist and for what ever reason Marksman doesn’t get a lot of love in the build/guide making community.

Hi everyone! Just wanted to say thank you for all the feedback, we have logged it all and it’s been passed to the right teams!

I do want to ask that everyone remain respectful and follow our Forum Rules, even when sharing differing opinions and view points. We will be reviewing posts for moderation where needed.

Thank you again for all of your input! Please keep it coming!

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Because some MG people are especially there for the trading aspect. Which is bad enough that the duping effected it sadly, but that’s a major point.

Also depending on how much they played it might have them outfitted with a large portion of MG tagged gear bought from the bazaar. Since gear is the major way for power in the game removing that is basically re-starting from a far further place, potentially wasting tens if not hundreds of hours of progress.

Because we sadly have no way for re-pricing items and people tend to price regarding to already existing listings. And since re-pricing costs the same amount of favor as listing an item in the first place it can often lead to items staying high-priced for too long.

In a normal market this wouldn’t be the case since re-pricing causes reactions of others to re-price as well, up to the point where supply and demand cause a equilibrium between people selling those items reliably versus people acquiring them reliably. Without that measure though this is slowed down rather extremely.

Also sellers don’t need to give up since specific items have a ever higher demand and barely any supply in the game, those naturally rise in price. There were a few rather long discussions about itemization which I also participated in.
Basically with how the drop-system, affix-system and crafting-system is set up you can expect to need between 15-25 T7 items of the right base with the right affix to get your ‘optimal’ outcome. Which is a single slot.
The time to acquire one such item is beyond 100 hours of effort in MG though, which means those will not fall in price but instead rise.
And besides the bricking through crafting the LP mechanic removes also a good portion of the items which are on a sub-optimal base-type, causing a very extensive draught there over time.

The dupe simply sped up what would happen naturally, which is for a surprisingly large portion of possible drops to cap the gold price, which leads to the functionality of the market being broken.

Market caps are a problem to reach for several reasons. The most important one… if a T7 and T6 well crafted item for example reach that… what goes beyond? Any more rare item can hence only be traded by exchange directly as the market becomes useless for it. It would be a loss to put up a 2 LP red ring when it would theoretically be 100 or 1000 times valued more then the cap, you would loose out on that.
Having it happening in 1.0 and 1.1 both showcases a fundamental design-flaw in the system which needs to be addressed, very direly so.
It destroys the fundamental reasoning for item exchange on a market.
The second major aspect is simple availability. If your item can’t be provided through the market it only leaves CoF anyway, making MG basically nonsensical to use long-term despite it being theoretically the superior option since it pools the community efforts together. In this case though nothing is provided to you, you can’t gather resources to acquire those things in the first place and you have to use gifting anyway to acquire it, making the option where you get items quicker (CoF) simply the superior option for 100% of players which want to play long-term.

And that’s just a few of the existing issues with the current setup. There’s more I won’t get into right away.

And as you say, circumventing the auction system itself together with the ongoing situation causes those issues to become far more visible. They still would be there and a downside, but this way players which play long enough are basically required to team up solely to exchange items with each other.
It’s all in all a bad system sadly.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QbLXGX9o

Here’s mine, it’s a WIP as I unlock and test things. Avoiding the Blast Rain node in Explosive Trap because I want my main attack to be Detonating Arrow (and I like the minefield XD)

Concept is to throw the minefield out, freezing enemies and spawning ballista. Causing any older ballista (or if I spawn more than 2) to explode, and the remaining I can stick by so they get Frenzy and shoot out explosive bolts (sometimes a spread) faster. The extra traps will shoot Detonating Arrows for me as well. And I use Hail of Arrows whenever the previous one expires (haven’t unlocked this yet not sure if I need to tweak anything) smoke bomb for safety, and Detonating Arrow as my filler/mana regen.

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This makes me think of the FFXIV market board. You list the items and purchasers pay a 3% (or something) tax (as a gold sink). So a suggestion could be to have a flat rate favor cost to list an item, but don’t require favor to adjust the prices and allow players to change the price on the listing itself. With the suggested MG specific currency, you would eventually reach an equilibrium. I’m not a market analyst though, so I’m sure I’m missing something.

Edit: since I mentioned the tax without bringing it back up for LEs system, adding a small favor or currency tax on purchases could help prevent the currency from becoming too inflated. Or require the currency as a listing fee to begin with?

Yes, this is a very mandatory aspect, but it doesn’t fully solve the issue, it’s a fantastic start though.

I haven’t even gone into taxation, just the circumstances without actual gold circulation happening even.

The current state of the market is that when I pay 100k for a single item another person suddenly has… 100k. So they can buy their item.
The only limitation is online time there, so if we have for example 2 people which through sheer dumb luck got several great drops which the other one needs then it usually goes that the first players 100k item is bought, then the other’s 100k item… so they’re gone. 100k sold quick… next one is 105k, getting 5k is quick, hence it sells quick again since basically all funds are already acquired.
This way gold circulates without reduction and steadily increases the prices until the cap is hit over time.

The removal of favor cost for re-pricing was something I immediately talked about when the system came out.
Also about a premium currency to avoid hitting the cap early on and avoid other mechanics to become basically useless for a MG player.
Same as the taxation since it actually creates a sink without allowing the circulation of gold through buying/selling to gradually rise the ‘floor price’ of items.

Those are the major ones, there’s more though.

Limitation on listings so long-term players don’t flood the market with both high-value and low-value items, leaving room for upstarts to actually create a profit and not pool it solely at the top.

Favor costs solely for sales to avoid mistaken ‘0’ cost listings.

Rep gain being the full 4 upon acquiring favor for MG to avoid misconceptions and it leading to market flooding.

Scaling favor prices with buying prices (floor price + increase as the price increases)

Minimum prices to ensure effort needs to be put into item acquisition.

Rank rework to instead adjust taxation, access shouldn’t be hindered by rank but rather by character progress. (level or content).

Overall there’s a lot to be done still, some are up to be contended, others are a mandatory aspect for it to function in the first place.
Some of those are mild problems… others leading to a infallible outcome over time, which affect Legacy. And no, people also play Legacy so the market for them is as important… actually more important since they got to deal with it long-term and not for a few months.

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I wasn’t talking about the length of a cycle patch.

Thats why first thing in my reply to llama was saying correct about early end or longer cycle patchs.

What i was talking about is when these resets would happen. Which EHG has told us when these would.

They even had to specify that this isnt 1.2 cycle patch (major patch)

Now my question is why specify it in the OP and still have it posted in the discords FQ. If major patch isnt the only time a reset will happen. Why is this info still up in it. Or even keeping saying cycle patchs are major patchs.

Is 3-4 months a goal yes. Whats they said about resets doesnt line up with the info they gave the community

Anyways id love to hear others thoughts on suggestions to improve these mid cycle resets so players dont have to be forced to play legacy just to keep playing cycle patch characters.

Which i dont agree with at all. Big turn off for me

If this is what EHG wants to do going forward

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Damn I figured I was overlooking something important, which lead me to pose the question. Yeah faction switch after investing quite a lot of time/gold/favor would kill the experience and make the MG gear unequipable.

I suspect the original concept for the market/trade faction wasn’t for it to be a capitalism trade simulator, but just an efficient means of exchanging items (without bartering), with a nominal gold cost to give the experience the thematic feel of buying/trading. Unfortunately, greed almost always creeps in and that is going to ruin such a simplistic idea.

Thank you I’ll have to look into this further.

From my post #422:

[== Long Variable Length Cycle (LVLC) ====================================]
[season #1] [R] [season #2] [R] [season #3] [R] [season #4] [R] [season #5] [R] [==EoC==]

In the above there are 5 seasons. “R” = reset. “EoC” = End of Cycle
The use of the word and concept of “cycle” is a bit overloaded. I think we should switch mid/sub-cycle to season. The LVLC gets the X.Y major patches while seasons can come with or without a patch. The above still allows for the EHG to preempt a season due to something going terribly wrong.

@Kulze :
I’m going to assume your description of the econ situation to be accurate. If my assumption matches reality, then without serious changes to MG faction design, aren’t we doomed to repeat this same problem in the future?

Using the search function, I did not find any statement (or even question) that (if) major patches are the only time cycles will reset/refreshed/whatever.
Neither in discord nor in the dev streams. Since it is possible that I just didn’t find it, perhaps you can point me to it with a link, since you seem to know where it is written down.

Thanks :slight_smile:

Well, a market always has several people interacting with it, and even in singular person to person trades you need to implement safety measures to avoid scamming and trickery as well as possible. There’s always bad eggs ruining it for everyone.

But… a capitalistic approach for a market itself is not bad, it’s fairly obvious people will try to get the best out of it for themselves, that’s a given. But that also means the necessary thought has to go into it.
Markets are luckily well researched and computer games have aided that research massively (Eve Online caused more then a single thesis for a student in university for example). We nowadays know which aspects need to exist to make one work and what by guarantee causes one to fail over time.

A proper framework takes care of that and ensures not only enjoyable but also positive experiences for a market… for that it needs to be done ‘right’, meaning that the bits which are a necessity need to be upheld, which - sadly - is currently just not the case. Duping should only be a short-term issue for a market commonly, it can happen and when solved the market automatically regulates itself afterwards. Bad situation… no serious repercussions.
But if the proper framework of a market isn’t upheld then we get what we have in LE, long-term persisting issues which don’t solve themselves through natural market equilibrium.

And that has to be fixed.

Yes. We are.
Over and over.
It likely won’t be a issue inside cycles, but in Legacy the market is basically unusable and it’ll only get worse over time.

I’ve had in-depth discussions about the topic several times already, spanning 20+ posts and working out details, discussing specifics.

The core design of MG is simply faulty, it doesn’t work with a player driven market environment. Some parts of the foundation are good or even fantastic… like no ability to re-sell items which causes price-fixing to not exist, as well as sale-bots having no angle to exist either. Very good.
Others though are purely detrimental (In the framework of LE).
This includes favor prices for listing. Gold usage instead of a specific currency (The least important point). Access restriction as ranks. No taxation. No favor scaling.

This sounds more like what mike has talked alot about. Is doing hybrid type cycles.

This here wouldnt be bad just needs to be communicated better than whag we have been being told aboit resets

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EHG has never said when resets would happen. They said when cycles will end.

All new cycles come with a reset, but not all resets are because of a new cycle.

This is the situation we’re in now and how EHG will operate going forward (unless they change due to the posts in this thead)