@DJSamhein It would be nice if Mike clarified if 300c is the balance target. I know that it’s very reasonable to assume that Mike’s statement is also shared with the team. I’m still hung up on the follow-up about how the corruption number is arbitrary in the video.
It is, but that doesn’t feel like a good word to use for something that is used as a balancing benchmark ya know?
I’d like to see you say anything nice in these forums just once.
As can be seen in the patch notes, they’ve already started fixing old stuff. But even if the devs did a full revamp for 1.1 you’d still maintain your “get off my lawn” attitude.
What I understand from Mike’s statement is that if a build can’t handle up to 300c, then it should be buffed. Because it’s not a successful build.
And if a build does more than 1k, it should be nerfed. Because that’s too high.
So we should just call them goalposts. They’re aiming for all builds to fit in between that range (though probably quite lower than 1k). If they can’t fix their balance that way and have to change their minds about those numbers, that’s just moving the goalposts.
I think that’s good for the good builds. But I would love to see a mid balance patch only just to bring the bottom specs more in line with the better specs.
If you are the player that really like to push past 1k it puts a bad taste in your mouth knowing that maybe you like let’s say shaman and that this spec will never get better all season. So if you are that type of player you may be better off playing the other high end specs to achieve your goals.
Know what I mean?
I do agree with that. But like I mentioned before, the rework necessary to bring those classes up is so big that it’s doubtful it could be done in a mid-cycle patch. You could just apply some band-aids to bring them up, but that wouldn’t feel so good, as can be seen by what they did with Shaman. It’s okish, but not that great.
Reworking a class (I know Mike doesn’t like that word, but I don’t think it’s a bad one. It just means you’re updating the classes to a new spec) is a delicate issue, as can be seen by the clusterf*** that was Falconer and Warlock. It needs lots of study, design and testing.
So yes, it would be nice if they could buff up the weakest ones. But I’d rather they take their time and do it properly. That’s just my opinion, though. I don’t mind those classes not reaching 1k as long as they’re fun to play and, to me, they are.
A lot of interesting points on all sides of this discussion.
I feel like we are missing another concept, I think very important: the time it takes to get there.
A build that can do 5000 corruption will be a cake walk (in my opinion, boring) until at least 4000.
It takes a huge amount of time to grind the corruption that high, probably too much time for casual players in one cycle, and I would fear a lot of players would get bored before reaching that and leave.
I think 300, or maybe 500-ish, is a good “average build power” target in terms of how long it takes to get there. It means the game would get for most builds challenging, aka interesting, after 200. That doesn’t take too long to reach even for a pure casual.
I am all for boosting the weakest masteries, but I don’t think bringing everyone to the level of the highest-performing ones is the solution, otherwise the average power would go up all the time and challenges would take too long to come.
If you look at how corruption scales, you can tell they had 300-500 in mind. I wouldn’t mind if they increased the difficulty per corruption. Make 300 corruption feel like 600 corruption right now. It’s conjecture, but it feels like they designed the game around non-legendary items. Have good exalted items with build defining uniques and you can do what they envision is endgame.
The two quotes you shared were not from me. And I’ve never said the game is dying nor have I said I want the game to fail. Another case of you upset and trying to throw things in to make your point valid.
Yeah me and dj have not seen eye to eye on most things. And yeah I’ll admit we both could have handled things better than we did. And yeah I’ll apologize to him. We both want what’s best for the game. We both want it different ways, but that’s fine. And I feel we have both come past that and now have actually met both ways.
And I’ll as well apologize to you.
So if you want to continue insulting people for having a different opinion then go for it. But please stop thinking that people want this game to fail when they’ve never said it. We all just want what’s best for the game. Or otherwise none of us would be here.
Yeah, the devs should determine a rough “power floor” and “power ceiling”, and aim for builds to land within that range. And then reign in the extreme outliers.
Classes that struggle to meet that power floor need to be buffed, classes thatexceed the power ceiling need to be nerfed.
It’s the most logical way to do it. This shouldn’t even be a debate, but the “only buff never nerf” crowd is quite loud with their cavemen logic “buff feel good nerf feel bad”.
I know, I was trying to show the types of people that tick me off and I’m not afraid of calling those people out.
I’ve always respected people who can apologize so I won’t continue this charade. I wasn’t the most mature either so I apologize as well. The kicker is I think we kind of agree on 90% of what’s wrong with the game. And I have to admit, I did kind of group you up with yawan and fred a little so that’s my bad.
They are bad comparably; it isn’t really debatable. Plenty of proof.
I agree they are fun, but it doesn’t make them good. Why would I play healing hands paladin when I can farm 2000 corruption faster than a paladin can farm 500–and also have fun.
It’s all good man.
But yeah most people, at least I assume, just want this game to improve. Were just all passionate about it and sometimes it can lead to us being a little heated lol
Besides the bug abusers (profane veil and ballista), most top builds are neck to neck. I agree balance is shit, but healing hands is also way overtuned. It’s a terrible example to use in this situation.
I gotten hundreds of unique drops so far, i am up to 200 corruption for testing purposes. 0 4lp items and around 11 3lp items. I think providing a 3lp item for completion of campaign is fine, even if you cap it to maybe 1 per class
Again: All skill are functional an number tweaks will do the trick for most people right now at this time. I haven’t had 1 skill that isn’t working when I press the button.
Are all skills fun and outstanding? No. Are skills working? Yes. Do some mastery classes need a modernisation? I think so.
Yeah I’m not saying number tweaks aren’t going to help. They obviously will.
I just meant in general some classes need more than just that sometime in the future.
I still don’t really get why though. Uniques with LP, especially higher LP, are supposed to be chase/end-game/min-maxing items, not something you hand out as a participation medal for completing the campaign. Even D3 didn’t give out Ancients or Primal Ancients just for doing the campaign (though there was a chance that Haedrig’s Gift would roll as Ancient).
It’s interesting to note that Mike addressed this issue again in this week’s stream and reiterated that 300 is their low goal and that all the high corruption builds he’s seen so far have all been where there were mistakes they (EHG) made and there’s stuff interacting in a way they never intended them to.
So we can expect major nerfs for 1.1, where they fix those interaction they never intended. Though it’s also likely that new ones will arise.
I just watched the stream. I can rest easy now lol!
That’s a little disappointing. The over the top builds look fun because of the interactions. Hoping they don’t kill the fun because it wasn’t intended.
