It looks like you have 3LP items:
Titan Heart: T5, T7, T5
Apathy Maw: T5, T7, T5
Siphon of Anguish: Both are 3LP: [looks like he used a rune of creation]
Dark Stride: T7, T5, T5
Only weavers will item he used was the relic from gaspard.
His build is attached to youtube, i looking at it Void Knight, level 100 (Release / 1.0.6) - Last Epoch Build Planner
3Lp is fine, but kind of over kill
The link to the planner is wrong and sends it to the planner for the regular build.
Check here:
In this variant, there are a few 1LP and 2 2LPs.
The link isn’t wrong. There are two links. “Build Planner” and “My real gear”. @WeAreViledNation probably clicked the second only.
Also the link to the guide will show my real gear, not the one I used in the experiment.
I’ll re-order the links to avoid confusion.
Is erasing strike even considered one of the stronger builds? Looks pretty good to me.
Definitely not but I think it’s a hidden gem. The tools are all there. But at the end of the day, it is melee and a non-ward build.
I like to play disadvantaged builds and try to figure out what would make them good.
Flies in the face of people who say you can’t play melee or non-ward builds. As long as the build makes sense, most builds work decently.
Yeah the people whining about not being able to do anything because there are only three builds in the game are a complete joke.
That and any notion that 300c is a benchmark of anything is also a complete joke.
This game has zero balance.
A build that can only do 300 C is an F tier build and a failure in the players eyes It couldn’t cut it and actually never got to push corruption. 300 C is basically the campaign and this is decided by the players NOT the Devs. So there is a detachment here.
A good build can reach 1,000+ corruption and once there the limiting factor is more or less time to actually push that high which means the “Build” is successful. It means the build can keep pushing and go too likely 1,500 or 2k+ The build is great and S tier +
So the Devs will have some work to do if 300 Corruption is going to be the mark for success that means then S tier build max would need to be 500 corruption.
A bit hyperbolic, for example, 300c is considerably harder than the campaign.
“What corruption is a successful build?” is just a loaded question to begin with since “successful” is subjective to from player to player.
Some players deem 300c as a good build because that’s the benchmark the devs gave. And that’s enough to satisfy them.
But generally I agree with most of your points.
What the devs aimed for vs how players’ builds actually performed. I agree with you that the players’ results is a truer barometer for build strength.
In my opinion, based on my anecdotal experiences with various builds. Assume reasonably geared, highest capable corruption without dying repeatedly.
F: Cannot attain 300. Failed build.
D: 300+ This build at least made some good choices.
C: 500+ This build makes sense and has synergy.
B: 800+ Very capable and well put together, minor flaws.
A: 1200+ Powerful and optimized but too honest or
only a small degree of degeneracy.
S: 2000+ Meta-defining. Best synergies and optimal abuse of overtuned features and/or bugs.
SS: 4000+ Maximum degeneracy.
Obviously, just my opinion.
Not completely since the successful build is set by the Top End builds corruption and Arena performance. IF X builds are doing 3k C and pushing 1,000’s of Arena waves they are the S tier builds. If your build “Can’t” do that and can only do 300 C then it’s just not competitive vs S tier builds.
The Devs contradict themselves though. If they benchmark a build as successful for 300 C that means they need to nerf the builds pushing 1,000s of corruption and reign them in. You can’t say 300 C is successful if builds are now pushing 5,000. It’s a contradiction.
Yea it’s always the players that decide S tier and what is viable. Sometimes the Devs aren’t in agreement and that is a design problem on their end.
Agreed.
Agreed
What I meant to say by that is, not everybody is trying to push to their capacity or try to meet someone else’s definition of successful. “Good enough” is good enough. Not everyone is a power gamer on a quest for the highest Corruption level. Hence why “successful” is too subjective of a term to universally define as a singular Corruption level.
I dont know if i would say contradiction. Lets say i am running a spreading fire build, and i need a 1lp burning avarice, and i got no clue this item is rare, i get lucky and clutch a 3Lp. Is that the build being good or is it dumb luck?
Hence we get to my point, that from my testing so far, the difference in quality of items from corruption was not noticable. Is a build viable at 300 because by the normal rate of leveling i got enough drops to do so? Or is it viable because i grinded for 300 hours? What we need is standardized leveling gear of some kind as a benchmark.
What we as a community need to decide on. Is leveling gear all T20s with a sealed tier 2 affix? Is it a weavers will 16 you can get from prophecy? Until we all come to a comsensus, or devs tell us, its pointless discussion
But only other S tier builds can be competitive with S tier builds, therefore only S tier builds are successful & anything else is unsuccessful.
Success is a very fluffy term.
No, they’re just not taking as blinkered a view of what success means as you. It’s not a contradiction its just a different mindset. Also, balance takes time, you don’t just cut a build off at the knees and call it a day.
Clearly the build has nothing to do with RNG so the answer to that is obvious.
A build that can only do 300 C is an F tier build and a failure in competitive players eyes.
There, fixed it for you.
Most players aren’t competitive. They only care about having fun. And a build that does 300c can be as fun (or even more fun) to play as a 2k+.
This is objectively false, since even 100C is several degrees harder than the campaign.
Devs never mentioned upper tier for corruption except to say that no build should ever do 1k+. So a more realistic number would be somewhere between 600-900.
Builds don’t have to be competitive to be successful.
This will probably happen in 1.1. I expect major nerfs to overperforming builds to happen. If they will manage to reign them in to below 1k remains to be seen.
Another option is to bring other builds up to their level and then increase game difficulty, like they did in 1.0 with corruption change. As long as they manage to balance builds between 300c and 1k, any method will do.
I doubt balance will be fixed by 1.1. The power difference between masteries is too great to balance properly in such short time. And the devs are learning how to handle this as they go along. But I believe that eventually they will reign it all in and get a tighter balance overall.
1.0 was their testing and learning ground.
Agree and do you think these players want Hard mode and are going to play an F tier build? No they aren’t. They want an OP build so they can have fun. They are going to look up an S tier build because they don’t want to have a bad time. Which isn’t a build doing 300 C.
That obviously needs to happen as most builds need to be somewhere in the vicinity of each other so there is actual build diversity. So that way corruption means something.
Disagree this is why Tier list exist. A tier is competitive it’s just not S tier. You can even play B tier which is middle ground but at least it’s not C, D or worse yet F tier. Players don’t want to play hard mode and have a bad time playing the low end. Builds that have a hard time in T4 julra or can’t push corruption.
This also ties into that other thread on why players die. You say obey mechanics. Meanwhile most players aren’t competitive and want builds that bypass mechanics so they can have fun. Good builds kill T4 julra before the explosion or can stand in it. Players will choose those builds as they are successful.
Ok well then it’s the wrong mindset. They are wrong in thinking 300 C is successful because clearly it’s not. I believe contradiction is a better word but wrong mindset works too and the Devs need to realize what dictates a successful build.
Again, it depends on the type of player. Many players don’t care about the power level of a build. If it’s fun, has fun mechanics/gameplay and can do endgame, that’s all that matters. And 300c is endgame.
This is my case. I don’t care if I can’t push past 300c. I just want to play a build that feels fun. And many builds I’m playing now are fun even though they won’t probably be able to get past much beyond 300c.
I’ll even go farther and say that the obviously OP builds aren’t fun for me.
So your opinion is based on your type of player, not on players in general.
Not in this type of game that is based on power progression. It’s the reason players are playing. It’s a gear based loot hunting game. 99.99% of the players care about build power because that is the main aspect of this genre and players who play it. So you are objectively wrong.
Players want to play or theorycraft powerful builds. It’s the power chase and builds that drive us in these games. This isn’t an game where power doesn’t matter. It’s the main aspect of it and why we “99.99%” are here. I say 99.99% because someone hasn’t realized what type of game this is or figured out this isn’t the game for them since it’s a power based game.
Wrong it hasn’t started to push corruption yet. 300 C can be End game if the Devs design corruption differently. As of now it’s a failure.
That’s your prerogative, but you’re clearly wrong. You could play a non-S-tier build but since that would be so clearly inferior to an S-tier build, why would you want to play an unsuccessful build?
Players & people in general, will often look for an easier route to a thing that they want.
Then they are clearly doing it wrong and subjecting themselves to bad and objectively unsuccessful builds that can’t kill T5 Julra in a fraction of a second. No true Scotsman player would do that.
If I was objectively wrong then PoE would have 5 builds each league. No one would play the other ones because they would be effectively weaker. Only 0.01% of players would use them. However, has can be seen easily in poe.ninja, this isn’t true.
What you mean is that 99.99% of the competitive players will use them. These players measure their fun by how far into the endgame they can push and how powerful they feel.
However, most players aren’t competitive and have their own goals. They just care about reaching endgame and having fun. You can have a build that is x100 better than all the others, but these players won’t use that build if it doesn’t feel fun to play.
It’s still endgame. Just like in PoE, delve is endgame. It doesn’t matter if you’re delving level 5000 or level 100, it’s endgame.
What you mean is that, to a competitive player, it barely counts as endgame because other builds can push much further.
Ultimately, there are 2 types of players:
-Players that have fun with combat, creating builds, finding stuff, etc.
-Players that have fun watching numbers get as high as possible.
The second type are a minority.